Till faith do us part

Thousands of Christian women are converting to Islam for love. But is it wise?

13 October 2012

A girlfriend who was about to get married was telling me about her wedding plans recently when she said, almost as an aside: ‘Oh, and I’ve converted to Islam.’

Her fiancé was a Muslim but she thought it no more than a minor detail — like ordering the corsages, or finalising the table plan — to arrange a private ceremony before the big day in which she took on his faith. I think she expected me to say ‘How lovely. And have you decided on the centre-pieces?’ But instead I blurted out: ‘You’ve done what?’

‘It’s fine. I really don’t mind,’ she continued, whilst puffing on a Marlboro Light. ‘It was easy. I just had to say a few words and it was done. I don’t have to wear a veil or go to mosque or anything. It doesn’t seem to make any difference at all.’ Apart from the fact that her children, when they come along, will be brought up Muslims. ‘Well, it will be nice for them to have a faith, and a set of rules to live by,’ she said.

‘But you have a faith and a set of rules to live by,’ I argued, feeling more and more offended. ‘You’re a Christian.’ I wanted to add, ‘You go to nightclubs, drink alcohol, wear skinny jeans, tight tops and make-up. Why on earth are you converting to a faith which thinks you are the infidel?’ But I didn’t say that, of course.

‘I’m really not that bothered,’ she assured me. ‘I’m not a practising Christian. It doesn’t make any difference to me either way.’

‘But, hang on. If all Christians took that view, wouldn’t we disappear? There would be no such thing as Christianity.’ My friend shrugged. She could not see what I was making a fuss about. And maybe I did have to ask myself why I was so deeply insulted. I think it was the casualness of the thing that struck me as disturbing. My friend maintained that reciting the shahada, the profession of Islamic belief, in front of an imam did not matter.

It may not matter to her, but I wager it mattered a lot to the imam, to her new husband and to his Turkish family. And it will matter to millions of Christians who, like me, are worried about their community selling out.

It seems everyone has a story to tell these days about a friend becoming a Muslim. There’s a growing trend for mixed marriage and conversions to Islam in particular on the rise. Asking around my immediate social circle produced a tale from almost everyone about a woman they knew, or knew of, who had recently converted. Those stories are borne out by fledging statistics, which are only just beginning to give us a picture of the change that may be happening.

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The growth of Islam in Britain is often still put down to immigration, but a study last year estimated that the number of Islamic converts in Britain has risen by two-thirds from 60,000 in 2001 to about 100,000. Around 5,200 people in the UK become Muslims each year. And while there are no figures on marriages specifically, we do know that 62 per cent of conversions are women and that the average age at conversion is 27, which is pretty much the age most women get married now.

This doesn’t seem to bother the Church of England much. After all, we have an Archbishop of Canterbury who thinks the adoption of certain aspects of Sharia law in British communities ‘seems unavoidable’ and might even help social cohesion. And perhaps it shouldn’t bother me. But something about the speed and ease of these apparent epiphanies makes me uneasy.

Islam is a special case, when it comes to conversion. To convert to Judaism is incredibly complicated, in some traditions involving a rabbi rejecting you three times before allowing you to embark on a lengthy and painstaking process. Catholics are notoriously picky and arguably spend more time and energy than recruiting in deselecting large numbers of their existing members for infringements such as divorce and remarriage. They demand that converts undergo weeks, sometimes months of preparation which is to end in their saying they believe the entire Catholic doctrine: a hurdle many cradle Catholics could not clear. Many Hindus still believe that theirs is an identity that can only be had from birth and as such there is no formal process for conversion to -Hinduism.

By contrast, Islam allows anyone to recite a single short sentence and sign a piece of paper. An internet search turns up dozens of sites instructing on the quickest way to convert — including doing it in your own living room, on your own — and there are any number of forums with Muslims giving pre-conversion Christians helpful advice on how to pronounce the shahada in Arabic.

But notwithstanding the eagerness of her new faith to welcome her, why should my friend, an Anglican Christian by birth, so meekly submit to this faith-swap? Could it be that when it comes to relationships, as Carrie Bradshaw might say, the party without much grounding in their own religion invariably gives way to the one with a strong sense of religious identity?

I also fear that we Christians are just too polite. The notion that we must put others before ourselves is admirable, but it is also what makes us rather ineffectual at faith-preservation. Middle-class Christians may be the worst in this respect, and middle-class female Christians even flakier still. When my friend bends over backwards to accommodate her Muslim husband, she is displaying the ultimate trait of a nicely-brought-up English girl: ‘No, no, you first! After your religion. I insist!’

Of course, the business of one belief system trouncing another through marriage is not new. As the child of a Catholic-Anglican partnership, I can testify to how dominant Roman Catholicism can be in the game of religious scissors-paper-stone. When I was young, I remember my mother sitting me down and offering me either her faith or my father’s, which to be fair, was woefully agnostic. ‘You can be a Protestant and go to Sunday school — yes, school on a Sunday. Or you can be a Catholic and have a special ceremony where you wear a white dress.’

That’s to paraphrase, but it wasn’t far off. Unsurprisingly, I chose the pretty dress option. I have never regretted my choice either. I like Catholicism, with all its unyielding eccentricities. I like the pomp and ceremony, the incense, confessional, the Latin mass, the feeling that wherever I am in the world there will be a church where, no matter what language is being spoken, I will feel at home.

But above all, I like the moral certainties. I don’t mind the dogma one bit. I would rather dogma and impossible ideals than confusion and compromise. In that sense, I do identify with those who choose Islam over the way of no faith, or a seemingly uncertain faith, like the woolly old C of E.

In uncertain times, and in the face of an aggressive atheist movement, people who suddenly decide that they want religion are choosing strong religions with hard and fast rules, strict boundaries and moral certainties. They don’t want a church that tells them everything goes. And they don’t want the wishy-washy non-religious faith of Ed Miliband either. What is ‘a person of faith, not a religious faith but a faith nonetheless’, as the Labour leader described himself in his conference speech?

Ironically, Mr Miliband went on to say that his mother had been sheltered by nuns during the war. Even so, he didn’t like -organised religion. You can’t please some people, least of all those who still observe the joyless stricture, enshrined by Alastair Campbell, that ‘we don’t do God’, in public at least.

Incidentally, it seems that Roman Catholicism vs Islam might make for a more interesting contest than one with Anglicanism.  A Catholic friend who married an Albanian Muslim tells me that she made it an absolute condition of the marriage that they raise their kids Catholic and he agreed, and even attends Mass with her on Sundays.

You may knock us Papists for being bigots, but at least we stand up for what we believe. Call me narrow-minded, but I would not convert to someone else’s religion for all the tea in China. I wouldn’t dare risk the fire and brimstone that my old convent school teacher Sister Mary Kevin told me was waiting for me if I strayed.

And before you pity me, I’m happy that way. I never cease to be delighted that having inherited a strong faith, I don’t have to worry about changing it for another one. I would compare the satisfaction I get from belonging to a resilient church to being content with your energy provider. It is, after all, such a lot of bother to switch to a rival firm and whatever largesse they promise at the point of signing you up invariably vanishes the moment they have you.

Not wanting to leave anything to chance, however, the Vatican is so worried about the possibility of Catholic women converting to Islam through marriage that it has issued an edict. A papal instruction, amusingly entitled ‘The Love Of Christ Towards Migrants’, warns women not to even think of loving migrants themselves — well, not in that way. As I say, you’ve got to hand it to them for chutzpah.

The Church of England, meanwhile, looks down its nose at such dogma, preferring instead to issue edicts that are ecumenical to the point of absurdity, in the interests of social cohesion. As my friend embarks on her new life as a Muslim convert, she will no doubt discover more about what sort of social cohesion Islam is prepared to offer her.

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  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_A4E5PR5DDDIWYSTV5YDIIGTHLA Michael

    “By contrast, Islam allows anyone to recite a single short sentence and sign a piece of paper.”

    Your friend may find out that Muslim males have the same attitude to divorce. But why should one be bothered about people like your friend who would probably be equally indifferent about announcing her conversion to Zoroastrianism or atheism if circumstances demanded it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/aidan.fusco.1 Aidan Fusco

    “it seems that Roman Catholicism vs Islam might make for a more interesting contest than one with Anglicanism. ”

    That round has been going on for centuries and has become a bit old hat.

    The real fun to be had is when the carcass of Christianity is finally torn apart by Islam in this country, and round 2 begins The New Atheist Movement vs Islam. Dawkins will have a fit.

  • http://twitter.com/sambadham Sam Badham

    Why is it that you religious people are so not bothered about actual truth? You know that actual reality we live in? Are you not bothered about that?

    All you seem to be bothered about is the social structure of you belief system, it seems very strange to me. Afterall you do know your faith is a logical paradox right?

    As in for your personal god to exist he has to be omniscient. But by being so takes away the possibility of you to have free will because a omniscient god knows what your actions will be and so you can not be held responsible for them. And if your god is not omniscient then he isn’t a god.

    So it is demonstrably a 100% impossibility for the christian, muslim, jewish or any other personal god to exist.

    Doesn’t that bother you?

    • Fergus Pickering

      Really Sam, a few words from you and their eyes are opened. That omniscient stuff is very old. Who told you that God is omniscient? Was it God?

      Oh, and while you are about it, prove to me that your reality is not just a delusion. Heard of Berkeley, have you? Read him? It is logically impossible to refute him.

      And while you are about it, mug up on the ontological proof of God. And tell me how you would disprove it. Bertrand Russell couldn’t, but I expect we have moved on since then.

      Until you have done all this keep your mouth shut while the grown-ups are talking. And listen. Who knows, you might learn something?

      • http://twitter.com/sambadham Sam Badham

        So you assert god is not omniscient? I see lots of ad hominem attacks if your post and very little substance.

        If your god is not omniscient than how could he hear your prayers? How could he effect events here on earth? Do you know what the difference is between a monotheistic god and deistic one? Obviously not.

        And Berkeley? Are you serious? Asserting reality is created through perception does not prove ‘god’ because he does not remotely attempt to define what a god is . That is called pre suppositional apologetics and is the last bastion of the biased and has no basis in science.

        And you will find Berkeley has been debunked many times. Try a bit harder, your ego appears to be writing cheques your brain can not cash here.

      • SebaKL

        God exists forever, and during some point in forever he decides to make a universe that spans trillions of light years because that’s the exact amount needed to create one planet that can support life. Once his kingdom on earth is established via a few hundred jews (who didn’t know about the chinese etc) he then uses his power, his omnipotence, his ultimate wisdom and his love……..to keep an eye on who you sleep with, what clothes you wear and to make sure that a large percentage of believers are confused about whether to eat bacon or not! These things are important dammit!

        Bravo, talking about shoot yourself in the foot with the “while the grown-ups are talking’ line.

      • Furor Teutonicus

        What bothers the god botherers more than anything is that a TRUE atheist just could not GIVE a shit about your fantasy worlds. And there is nothing a looney hates more than to be ignored.

  • Eddie

    Well it’s always the woman who has to covert to the man’s religion eh? Islam is not tolerant enough to allow a Muslim man to marry a non-Muslim – which shows its true colours really. But this just came from a primitive mind-set: you fight another tribe, win, enslave or kill the male survivors, and shag their women, who you then ‘marry’ and absorb into your own tribe.
    Most British whites who become Muslim are thick lower-class – oftenh northern – girls who want to belong: and as the streets where they live ate mostly Asian, they think it’s all so exotic and they want to feel special by wearing a headscarf etc: white British feminists despise women who want just to be mothers, good wives to their husbands, and to stay at home – religions respect such women, especially things like Islam.
    But really, not THAT many converts. Also, lots of Muslims already drink alcohol, go to nightclubs, wear makeup (even the men who like boys!) and do all those modern things. Not all muslims follow the backwards village peasant literatlist conservative fanatical version of Islam: lower class ones do far more than educated ones, for example.
    “You may knock us Papists for being bigots, but at least we stand up for what we believe.”
    Yep, and so did Hitler. Good grief… People knock bigots for being bigots, and those who cover up child abuse for being abusers – no-one I know is a knee-jerk papist-hater (maybe in Scotland or Northern Ireland eh?)

    • proudmuslima

      It’s actually the most educated people who are reverting to Islam, and yes, there are quite a few. As for the alcohol drinking Muslims, where does it say that Christians can drink, or gamble, or even eat pork? Read your Bible, Eddie. You either believe or you don’t – make up your mind. Being “modern” is not an acceptable excuse.

  • Andrew Moore

    I wouldn’t read too much into an Albanian Muslim’s acceptance of a Catholic upbringing for his children: most urban Albanians wear their Islam very lightly indeed.

  • ehup

    what happens if she doesn’t like it…Does she know?

  • Simon Morgan

    This woman of yours simply cannot know a single thing about Islam, or why it so offensive to the free people of the world. She cannot know anything about the ‘honour’ killings, female genital mutilation, the shooting of school girls who want to get an education, the pedophilia – we could go on and on, and on.
    She must really be living in a bubble. Damn, that is one dumb woman.

    • trixie’sMummy

      You obviously don’t know much about Islam, either. All of the things you mention; “the ‘honour’ killings, female genital mutilation, the shooting of school girls who want to get an education, the paedophilia” aren’t “Islamic”. NOWHERE in Islam does it say that FGM, Paedophilia, shooting schoolgirls or “Honour” killings are acceptable.
      In Islam It is actually commended, and obligatory for males and females to educate themselves to the level of which their intellect is capable. Honour killings? The Holy Qur’an says that girls who are murdered for honour/ because they are girls will be questioned on the day of judgement, “for what crime were these females murdered”, making it quite clear it’s not an acceptable practice.

      I am considered a very intelligent woman, and *I* have chosen Islam as the right path for me, with no coercion.

      • Trofim

        Sorry, but which Islam are you talking about? La-La land Islam, or real world Islam? Islam is nothing more and nothing less than what Muslims do. The kind, gentle, tolerant, measured, pink and fluffy Islam is an imaginary Islam. Full stop.
        And look at the penalty for changing your mind if you find that Islam isn’t for you. But trixie’sMummy won’t ever change her mind, will she. Mind you, if she does, there is always the British Council for Ex-Muslims. I believe they’ve got safe houses.

        • mmrs151

          Mr Trofim,
          Only one sentence I would like you to reflect upon.
          It is not Muslim that made the Islam great, it is Islam that made Muslim great.

          Unfortunately we are far behind the teaching of Islam now, which results the above crime that you have mentioned.

          In fact Christianity is not free of the accusation either.

        • proudmuslima

          You’re right to a degree. There are not enough Muslim role models around – only too many of the uneducated, crazy ones. Many new converts have said they were thankful they only knew a few Muslims before accepting Islam – or else they would have scared off!

      • http://georgeigler.com/ George Igler

        “NOWHERE in Islam does it say that FGM, Paedophilia,
        shooting schoolgirls or “Honour” killings are acceptable.”

        The Reliance of the Traveller and Tools for the Worshipper

        (The standard text of Shafi’i Sunni jurisprudence)


        Section o1.2.(4) indicates that there is no punishment for
        parents who kill their offspring.


        THE BODY

        Section e4.3 examines the extent to which FGM is
        *compulsory* in some forms of Islam, while in others it is considered a mere
        “courtesy to the husband”

        “Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female)… …but
        circumcision of the female is by cutting out the clitoris”


        You really should know your facts before you hysterically
        accuse others of spreading lies.

        • Yahya John

          These are lies, Rubbish, do not mention rubbish sites to make innocent people, fool.

        • proudmuslima

          LOL. That is not the standard text of jurisprudence – just the same drivel all people like you bring out when they want to attack Islam.

          • Abdul Rahman

            No :) Islam does pretty good job on its on, exposing its ill core and evilness by its daily actions, observable across the whole Islamic world.

      • SebaKL

        Honor killing is neither in the Quran nor is it in Hadith. It is however the natural outcome of the Islamic ethos of misogyny. Women in Islam are regarded as sources of shame. Muhammad said they are awrah which can be translated as object of shame. You can say honor killing is cultural, but it is a culture that is deeply rooted in Islamic mindset and derives from it. It is practiced in many Islamic countries. The more religious country, the more widespread the honor killing. 33.33: “stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display”.

        The Quran gives Muslim men permission to beat their wives for disobedience (Surat 4:34 http://quran.com/4/34), but NOWHERE does it command love in marriage. It plainly says that husbands are “a degree above” wives. The Hadith says that women are intellectually inferior, and that they comprise the majority of Hell’s occupants.

        Muslim women do not inherit property in equal portion to males. This is somewhat ironic given that Islam owes its existence to the wealth of Muhammad’s first wife, which would not otherwise have been inherited by her, given that she had two brothers and her first husband had three sons.

        A woman’s testimony in court is considered to be worth only half that of a man’s, according to the Quran. Unlike a man, she must also cover her head – and often her face. If a woman wants to prove that she was raped, then there must be four male witnesses to corroborate her account. Otherwise she can be jailed or stoned to death for confessing to “adultery.”

        Given all of this, it is quite a stretch to say that men and women have “equality under Islam” or that “Islam liberates women”.

        • Cantara

          The reason why Muslim women do not inherit a equal portion of property to men is that Muslim men have to look after and provied for there women. Anything that a Muslim women earns, she keeps for herself and doesnt have to give anything to her male members of her family in life.

          • SebaKL

            Right, and they are left to mercy of their kids upon spouse departure. Not to mention that it’s commonly practiced to discourage women from work, so she pretty much doesn’t get anything, and is held hostage to husband’s good wil and hand downs. While I take the time to entertain your reply, I must stressed that I have hard time taking anyone seriously who lacks the cognitive abilities to differentiate the word “there” and “their”.

          • Cantara

            @SebaKL:disqus I forget which 1 is ment to goes in the right place. Ive always stuggled with that after 11 years at school and another 4 years at collage. I only got a grade D in my English Lang GCSE.
            Muhammad (pbuh) encourage women to work. His 1st wife, Khadija (May Allah be pleased with her) worked very hard to earn money for her self.
            If a women wants to work, a man can not stop her from doing so. It is a cultural thing for women not to work, not a Islamic thing.

          • SebaKL

            I find such comments incredibly offensive to all the women “lucky” to live under Islamic ruling.
            There is no ambiguity in the Quran, the life of Muhammad, or Islamic law as to the inferiority of women to men, despite the efforts of modern-day apologists like you, who claim otherwise.

            90% of Islamic world clearly demonstrates its uncivilized attitude toward women. From Sudan to Iran, Indonesia, Pakistan, Saudi, Yemen, Emirates, Iraq etc… That’s the majority of “Real Muslims”, who simply follow mandate from holly book.

            Ever heard the traditional Islamic saying; “A woman’s heaven is beneath her husband’s feet.” ?

            You are shame and embarrassment, for all the women who suffer evil faith under Islamic ruling.

            Kindly provide me with verse where Muhammad encourage women to work, and I’ll find you few for each such verse, where he degredes them, objectify them, disrespect them, insult them or make fun of.

            Bukhari (4:149) – Muhammad’s wives are even trained to defecate on his command.

            I was a muslim, born to muslim parents, and even tho I’m no longer subscribing to this bronze age superstition, I still live in an Islamic country, and I know my Quran and Hadith very well. I’m willing to be proven wrong. Willing, but not optimistic.

          • bruno

            This is not true (“If a women wants to work, a man can not stop her from doing so. It is a cultural thing for women not to work, not a Islamic thing.”). Please read NINE PARTS OF DESIRE. You will get answers to many of your questions. Muhammad worked FOR Khadija, whom he later married. Khadija was older than him, and when she died, Muhammad changed the status quo about woman’s role in the (muslim) society.

          • Cantara

            @disqus_JEjxWaFP41:disqus Khadija (may allah be pleased with her) Was a very successful business women when she married the prophet (pbuh). He didnt stop her from working.

          • proudmuslima

            When you remember to put a few prepositions where they are needed, perhaps we’ll take your advice regarding grammar. Your syntax is very Indian, btw.

          • Sarah

            Aww, how sweet. Sort of like women-children. And all they have to do in return is submit to his authority. How’s that working out for ya?

          • Yahya John

            She was a Pious Woman and will be the one of leaders of the women in paradise! in contrast the non-believing women will be burning in hell fire and angels will hit them very badly! then “we will say how’s that working for ya?”

          • proudmuslima

            Muslim women are the same as all women – the smart ones allow their husbands to believe they’re in control.

          • Abdul Rahman

            Right, that explain why they can’t drive cars in KSA :)

          • proudmuslima

            Another fail. Muslim women drive in every other country – not driving in KSA is politically driven, not religious. Next.

          • proudmuslima

            It’s actually great. My money is all my own and my husband has to provide for us all. You do know that most Western men today would actually prefer their women to be a little more docile? There are a lot of new books out on that. But maybe you’re not used to the man being manly – maybe that’s why so many of them feel so emasculated today and prefer men as partners. Think about that.

          • Sarah

            And you think that makes it better? Forcing women into a position of financial and social dependence and a childlike status of governance by men is your idea of a justification for discriminatory inheritance laws?

            This is the reason women are stuck in unhappy marriages, why they get funnelled into young or polygamous relationships, why there are so few job opportunities for women in the Muslim countries, why girls get deprived of an education, why they are so vulnerable to abuse, why so many live in abject poverty, why men control the political sphere with such disastrous consequences for the whole world.

            Making women quasi children with no automony and volition via the use of financial controls is the heart of every problem in the Islamic world.

        • Sarah

          honor killing is in the Koran and the Hadith. What do you think stoning a woman to death for adultery is? Which, incidentally, Mohammed instigated on at least one occasion.

          • MahmudH

            Neither stoning nor “honor” killing are in the Quran. Both are present in hadiths, but predate Islam, i.e. stoning for adultery is actually from Judaism, which is why Jesus had to overrule it in the New Testament. The Quran actually specifically describes the punishment for adultery as 100 lashes, not execution. But because this contradicts the very unreliable hadiths, muslim authorities pretend the Quran doesn’t mention adultery, and that the 100 lashes is referring to some other unspecified sin. The hadiths were written decades, or more often centuries, after the Prophet’s death to justify the world view of the patriarchal rulers of the time.

          • Sarah

            Err. Mohammed was a patriarchal ruler of the time.

          • MahmudH

            How do you know? What source tells you this, and how reliable is it?

          • Sarah

            “The Hadith were written decades, or more often centuries, after the Prophet’s death”

            So was the Koran.

            Anyway, here’s a heart-warming tale of Islamically-sanctioned honour killing aka psychotic misogyny:

            “Allah’s Apostle said, “By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, I will judge between you according to Allah’s Laws. The slave-girl and the sheep are to be returned to you, your son is to receive a hundred lashes and be exiled for one year. You, Unais, go to the wife of this (man) and if she confesses her guilt, stone her to death.” Unais went to that woman next morning and she confessed. Allah’s Apostle ordered that she be stoned to death.”
            Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 50: Conditions, Number 885

          • MahmudH

            Bukhari was writing about 300 years after the prophet’s death. That’s somewhat less reliable than trying to piece together a history of the American Civil War from watching the film “Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter”. The Quran was put to paper during the lifetime of Muhammad’s family and companions. The methodology is still not infallible, but it is many orders of magnitude better than Bukhari.

          • Sarah

            No, the Koran wasn’t completed until around 400 years after Mohammed’s death, and wasn’t finalised until 1924. And is precisely no more reliable as a historical source than the Hadith, perhaps even less so.

            Which is all very interesting, but irrelevant to the issue of whether Islam sanctions state honour killing.

          • MahmudH

            Oh come on, you’re the one who falsely claimed that honour killing was in the Quran. And now you’re trying simultaneously claim that the Quran is irrelevant and unreliable. Well, your first claims about it certainly were inaccurate. And since all Islamic theology says the Quran takes primacy above the hadiths, you can’t go claiming it is irrelevant.

          • Verk

            The punishment for adultery is only 100 lashes, not execution? Wow, Momo was so progressive and tolerant! What a hero.

          • Salaam

            Both the man and woman are stoned

          • Sarah

            So Islam sanctions honour killing for both men and women.

        • Yahya John

          Prophet Mohammad (SAW) Said: the best among you is who who is best with your Wives.
          A person asked Prophet Mohammad (SAW) who is the most Capable of my Good Attitude and behavior, Prophet said your mother, the person asked next Prophet said your Mother, he asked again and get the reply your Mother, Prophet said Father in number 4.
          Following are the saying of the Prophet Mohammad (SAW):
          – Paradise in under your Mother’s feet
          – God shall enter him in Paradise who look after two Daughter.
          – Take care of the women rights all the time.

          in the definition of mentioned verse Prophet (SAW) explained the punishment that it is should like that hitting with tooth brush and
          This should not give her a mark and this is when she commits the adultery or any big sinn.
          Prophet (SAW) never beat his wives or shouted at them.
          Women’s testimony is not half when she was the target of Rap.
          If is not the right religion then why are women are reverting back to Islam. You people want to see them sexy, naked and skinny for your desires but Islam give them protection, clothes and drag from the stone age.

          • SebaKL

            You can try to contort it, but you can’t square a circle.

            Qur’an promotes wife-beating, that alone makes it evil. It also states men have authority over women, and women are to be obedient, thus establishing an authoritarian structure with the husband as head of the wife.
            In fact the Qur’an states Allah created men to be maintainers of women and men are superior to women, therefore Allah did not create men and women as equals.

            Prophet Job (Ayyub) was permitted to beat his wife in Surah 38.

            In the Hadiths there are several examples of Muhammad divinely ordaining wife-beating, thus confirming the correct understanding of surah 4:34.

            In Sahih Muslim 4:2127 Muhammad causes his wife Aisha physical pain by striking her in the chest.

            In Sahih Bukhari 8:82:828, 1:7:330, and 6:60:132 Muhammad strikes Aisha violently with his fist.

            There are far many more references from Hadiths to Muhammad’s evil deeds and misogynistic statements, which outweigh any tiniest bit of “good” he ever did o said.

            Also, let’s not forget, on many occasions, after saying something what could be perceive as kind or profound, which many muslims use to quote (just as you did above), he would swiftly change his mind to the contrary, and these are the parts you conveniently omit.
            For example, Abu Bakr informs Muhammad he slapped Khadijah’s daughter, and Muhammad responds by laughing and tells Abu Bakr his wives are asking him for more money. Abu Bakr and Umar respond by slapping Muhammad’s wives, Hafsa and (for the third time) Aisha. Later on Muhammad gives a decree instructing men to not beat their wives, but changes his mind once Umar informs him that some of the women have become embolden towards their husbands. The women complain to Muhammad and he responds by stating they are not the best among you and a man will not be asked as to why he beats his wife.

            I heard all those lies before, you can either try harder, or be more creative in contort facts, but so far I’m not really impressed. I suggest you get to know your religion better, before attempting to defend it. Keep in mind tho, many of us were Muslims before, and many of us are well versed in Qur’an and Hadiths.

          • Yahya John

            @SebaKL:disqus , I do believe you are paid for spreading this nonsense, in which world do you live? cant you see that men still have dominance in your society:
            Christians just agreed some years before that woman has a brain, Atheist just allowed them right of vote just 60 years before. in Islam woman were counted equally as man from the start.

            your men made your women a sex symbol they mad your adult movies just for men’s pleasure.
            I have checked your fake stories and found them not true or derived from weak “Zaeef” Ahaadees.
            For the sake of Argument Suppose he hit mother Ayesha or someone so the person who was hit had all the right of complain and not me and you after 1400 years. If she or all other wives had no issues with that then whats the problem you. why did they not get divorced and get another man?
            In our culture parents give harder punishments to boys than girls. they hit the boys you cant imagine, I have never seen parents hitting so hard to girls.
            you have seen the riots as consequences of eliminating punishments in schools.
            In Islam Woman has right to leave the man any time with a single warning but man can not do that he has to compensate three times before giving her final warning to leave her.
            Your type of women does not accept men’s dominance and lives as lesbian, what a destruction to society and the new generation?

          • SebaKL

            The utter stupidity of this comment is just too panful to consider. Dear god (pun intended).

            I was actually expected to be call Jew or Zionist. But you got closed by accusing me of “being paid”. Any ex-Muslim who expose your iies get such labels, your not the first You just can’t come to terms with the fact that some of us dare to spread the truth, and choose real education, than some primitive bronze age lame superstition, build on stolen stories from other cultures and their myths.

            You can lie as much as you want, but you can no longer hide from the world the truth about women in Islam. Everything the world see, is to the contrary of your claims. From recent women ban from universities education in Iran, to fatwa against Yoga for women in Malaysia, or honor murder of your girl in Canada and the UK… and countless more.

            Few days ago, we drop a man from the edge of space, setting number of new records. you shot a girl in a head, Malala Yousufzai, for wanting to go to school.

            Islam, a creeping mind numbing psychic disease which robs the believer of their unrealised individuality and stultified their reason. Islam the greatest insult possible to a world where consciousness has evolved.

          • Trofim

            Islam, a creeping mind numbing psychic disease which robs the believer
            of their unrealised individuality and stultified their reason. Islam
            the greatest insult possible to a world where consciousness has evolved”
            I like that. I hope it’s not copyright. I’m a bit lazier, and content myself with referring to the RIP as “pernicious, disgusting, vile, loathsome, ludicrous filth – or something like that.

          • proudmuslima

            Every lie you’ve stated can be easily challenged.
            Thanks for the entertainment. But a huge fail.

          • SebaKL

            And yet, some how, magically, you are incapable of doing so :)
            How does it taste? That foot in your mouth ?

          • proudmuslima

            Using google is pretty straightforward. You must have overlooked that when you posted your fabrications. But thanks again for the entertainment. It’s amazing how low some people will stoop to try to discredit Islam – poor frustrated souls.

          • SebaKL

            Likewise :) It’s always fun coming across someone with 7th century philosophy. Like a little time travel.
            As for discrediting Islam :) Please … that’s too easy. You guy to very good job yourself. Is the only religion that just keep on giving, from child grooming and child rape across UK and Sweden, to (as said above) shooting little girls in the head or killing little girls for disobedience. We only write about it, while are the source of material :)

          • Abdul Rahman

            BRAVO, Sir!
            I wouldn’t say it better myself :)

          • Abdul Rahman

            “A religion that just keep on giving”

            that’s just in, bravo islam, he primitive, bronze age superscription at its best:

            A Pakistani man who was acquitted of a blasphemy charge has been shot dead by two men in Punjab province, police officials said on Saturday.


          • proudmuslima

            I know – if you don’t believe in God, it’s almost impossible for you to believe in angels, etc. But glad I entertained you. As for the bad examples of Muslims, I also agree with you. I could stay here all day citing pitiful examples of Jews and Christians and Muslims all day – too easy.

          • Abdul Rahman

            You do realize that the fool here is you, right?
            Your pathetic attempt to defend your false fairy tales, it’s seriously embarrassing.
            You’ve got bitch slapped by SebaK, just take it like a man, not some sore loser and pathetic troll.
            You got owned, bitch!

          • proudmuslima

            Stooping to personal attacks says a lot about you. Why are my “fairy tales” bothering you so much, then? Your disbelief of them doesn’t bother me at all – it’s all a bit funny actually.

          • Sarah

            Mohammed hit Aisha in the chest so that it made her cry out. Because she had disobeyed him and shown some initiative.

      • Cantara

        trixie’sMummy, What you said sister in faith, is so true and I total agree with you.
        I am too considered a very intelligent woman, and *I* have chosen Islam as the right path for me too. I’m so happy to be a Muslim for the last 5 years, alhumdillah.

        • Cantrara

          I wish some of theses blind people on here would would open there eyes see the truth, like us 2 sister.

          • Trofim

            But what do you mean by “true” and “the truth”? The Quran is untrue in many places.

          • Cantara

            @Trofim:disqus Thats just a stuped question.

            No it is not, Its more accurate than the bible.

          • Rahman Abdul

            HAHAHAHAHAHA …”more accurate than the bible.” I can’t help myself, your comments are beyond laughable. Saddest of all, you claim to be a Muslim, but you obviously know very little about your own religion.

            The Quran is catastrophe, full of historical and scientific errors. I won’t even mention biology, and basic hygiene practices .

            Surat 18:86 l-Kahf (The Cave), tells us that Alexander the Great, travel so far west, he found the place where the sun sets. And according to the quran, the sun sets in a muddy water. Surat 37:6-10 and Surat 67:5, tell us that starts are rockets to shoot demons when they try to sneak in heaven. The earth is flat according to Surat 88:20, and in Surat At-Tariq 86:5-7 we learn that the spearn is produce between a rib and a spine, while according to Surat 22:5 Al-Haj human goes through blood clot stage during embryological development.
            On top of all of this, the Quran repeatedly claims to be perfectly clear, which means that interpretation is off limits. 6:114, 11:1, 16:89, 24:34, 27:1, 28:2, 41:3, 57:9, 65:11 – Kind of shoot itself in the foot with that.

            Let’s not forget, that Muhammad was teaching his followers (Sahih al-Bukhari 5782) to dunk diseased flies in the food, and to drink water from pound with dead animals in them Sunan Ibn Majah 520, or to treat their illnesses with camel urine Sahih al-Bukhari 233.

            As an ex-Muslim myself, I feel embarrassed on your behalf. Your ignorance is not even amusing. Just straight up sad.

          • proudmuslima

            You were never a Muslim. Your lies speak for themselves.

          • proudmuslima

            The Quran is the Truth. Not one untruth will anyone ever find in it until the end of time. Go ahead and try.

          • Trofim

            Yeah, but which theory of truth are you using?

            For the sake of brevity let’s stick to correspondence and coherence theories. Which one do you favour?

          • proudmuslima

            You flatter yourself. It’s obvious your study and understanding of the Quran is at best barely superficial, and your analysis of the rationale behind the feeling of insult felt by Muslims regarding that production is even more superficial. World renowned scientists and doctors have accepted Islam because of their outright public acknowledgement that no human being in that period of time could possibly have known about the intricacies of the earth and sea and of foetal development – intricacies that were only discovered very recently and with advanced technology.
            As for Allah being everywhere – do you think God Almighty is confined to a certain area? God is closer to each of us than our jugular veins.

          • Trofim

            Still waiting for a response rather than a typical islamo-evasion. And if God is everywhere, then he must be up my rectum, right? In fact he must be in turds as well, musn’t he?

          • proudmuslima

            If you don’t believe in God – why would you care? And you probably need some help with that elimination obsession…..

          • Rahman Abdul

            What truth would it be ?

            Islam is at once the least interesting of the world’s monotheisms. It builds upon its primitive Jewish and Christian predecessors, selecting a chunk here and a shard there. Its founding narrative likewise takes place within an astonishingly small compass, and relates facts about extremely tedious local quarrels.

            Islam when examined is not much more than a rather obvious and ill-arranged set of plagiarisms, helping itself from earlier books and traditions as occasion appeared to require. Thus, far from being “born in the clear light of history,” as Ernest Renan so generously phrased it, Islam in its origins is just as shady and approximate as those from which it took its borrowings. It makes immense claims for itself, invokes prostrate submission or “surrender” as a maxim to its adherents, and demands deference and respect from nonbelievers into the bargain. There is nothing—absolutely nothing—in its teachings that can even begin to justify such arrogance and presumption.

            The prophet died in the year 632 of our own approximate calendar. The first account of his life was set down a full hundred and twenty years later by Ibn Ishaq, whose original was lost and can only be consulted through its reworked form, authored by Ibn Hisham, who died in 834. Adding to this hearsay and obscurity, there is no agreed-upon account of how the Prophet’s followers assembled the Koran, or of how his various sayings (some of them written down by secretaries) became codified.

            Quran and hadith were no more than “verses from the Torah and the Gospels, bits of Rabbinic sayings, ancient Persian maxims, passages of Greek philosophy, Indian proverbs, and even an almost word-for-word reproduction of the Lord’s Prayer.” Great chunks of more or less straight biblical quotation.

            But to know all these, and more, one would have to read and study more than one book. Then only, one would find the real “Truth”. But for this, one must be keen.

            Just because you wish Islam was the “truth” it doesn’t make it so, or worth to be held in the same respect.

          • Simon Morgan

            It must really suck for Muslims that their faith is actually derived from Judaism. That’s probably the reason they hate the Jews so much.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/J3GDUQWBY6JYBJLHSGW7FZPGWE William

            Not as much as it must for Christians, who actually stole most of their Bible from the Jews.

          • Salaam

            The Bible is God’s book- just as the Torah and Islam so don’t you dare insult it. What do you live your life by- whatever a bunch of newsreaders tell you?

          • Trofim

            What does insult mean? If you can insult a book, can you insult a brick or a tadpole? Is it true that the Quran is an insult to the intelligence?

          • proudmuslima

            Al hamdulillah you both reverted. May Allah keep you both strong and protect you in this life and give you Jannah Al Fardous, insha’Allah.

        • Sarah

          You believe the most likely explanation for the Koran is that a God sent an angel to a man? Who on earth considers you to be intelligent?

          • proudmuslima

            Definitely. All Muslims believe in Angels. Do you consider that too much for God Almighty – who created the universe and everything in it? Muslims do not. We’re not afraid to bow our heads down before our Creator. Judaism, then Christianity, then Islam – one Message via three consecutive Messengers. We’re not in a competition.

          • Trofim

            But I’m the final messenger – an angel came and told me so yesterday. He said that in retrospect, like Jimmy Savile, Mohammed wasn’t a very good role model, so Allah, and his wife, recommended me as the next prophet.

          • proudmuslima

            And I’m really Santa Claus.
            Go read something worthwhile instead of this stupidity.

          • Trofim

            How dare you insult God’s final prophet in such a manner!

          • proudmuslima

            God’s final Messenger is Mohammed pbuh.
            You, on the other hand, seem to have forgotten your antipsychotics today. Take them now, there’s a good lad.

          • Trofim

            In my trade, psychiatry, we use antipsychotics for people who believe in angels. You have yet to give a reasonable answer to my pointing out the discrepancy between the quran and scientific evidence as to the how birds hover. Deflection is so convenient, don’t you think……. Mohammed (bhlcs) could definitely have done with a bit of Trifluoperazine.

          • proudmuslima

            I’d suggest using something a little more respectable than IslamiLeaks for your questions in the future.
            I will not be doing your work for you again,as I really don’t give a hoot what you belive in or not, but just for you:

            Do they not see the birds suspended in mid-air up in the sky? Nothing holds them there except Allah. There are certainly signs in that for people who believe. (Surat an-Nahl, 79)

            Due to the force of gravity, all bodies left in the air will eventually fall to earth, either fast or slowly. Everything, living or otherwise, is subject to gravity. But as a miracle of Allah (God) birds are able to resist this force and fly upward and downward in the air. They maneuver in the air, and sometimes even fold their wings and glide through it. All details in birds, from their feathers to their lungs, from the arrangement of their feathers to the shape of their wings, are equipped with a special feature and order intended to enable them to fly. A chick totally unaware of the act of flight and the laws of aerodynamics is born with the ability to fly. The chick launches itself downwards and begins to fly, just as if it knew its body was created for flight. This is not information that is taught subsequently or that a bird learns by trial and error. The way a bird knows it has the body structure needed to fly, finds the courage to launch itself into the air and then flies without hitting the ground all happens through Allah’s inspiration.

            The Arabic word “yumsikuhunna” translated as “holds” in verse 79 of Surat an-Nahl means “not letting them go, taking them, catching them, or holding them.” The word is the present tense of the verse “amsaka,” meaning “to catch with the hand, hold and pull back.” With this word, our Almighty Lord reveals that He holds the bird in the air and that it flies by His command. Bird flight is still the subject of wide-ranging research by scientists. Having observed the perfection in bird flight, scientists use the avian body and avian flight as direct models in producing such vehicle as airplanes and jets.

            Verse 79 of Surat an-Nahl may in one way be indicating the way that birds comply with the aerodynamic laws created by Allah as they fly. (Allah knows the truth.) The science of aerodynamics studies the behavior of solid bodies in a fluid environment such as air. For example, as a plane moves through the air, various forces emerge that affect that movement. In order for the plane to move as planned and not to run into any unexpected forces or resistance, the plane is tested beforehand against the resistance exhibited by the air. Its movement is planned as a result of lengthy calculations, measurements and experiments.

            The way that birds comply with the principles of aerodynamics continues to astonish scientists. Using no form of trial and error, they cope with the laws of aerodynamics in the most perfect manner. The use of the word ” musakhkharatin” (suspended) in the verse to describe bird flight is exceedingly wise. Because it suggests that they have been “encouraged to a specific end, have had to do something, have submitted or bowed their heads, have bound themselves to Allah or have submitted to His laws”. In that way, the verse may be indicating the way that aerodynamic laws have a determining influence on bird flight. (Allah knows the truth.)

            At first sight there would appear to be nothing to make it difficult for birds to fly. But according to aerodynamics, any object flying in the air is subject to various different forces. The best-known of these are gravity, propulsion, drag and lift. In order for meaningful flight to take place, these forces have to be balanced. For example, if gravity is stronger than the other forces, the bird will fall to earth. That is why the word in the verse is the best possible expression of birds’ condition as they are subjected to these forces. The presence in the Qur’an of expressions containing such information at a time when no science of aerodynamics or mechanics existed, once again reveals that the Qur’an is a divine text.



            Your trade would explain a lot about you, actually. In my trade, internal medicine, we have a special name for you, especially after a few years.

      • Simon Morgan

        Well, with an intelligent woman like you leading the way, I can see peace in our time….But you might have to just mention these pearls of wisdom of yours to the Taliban in Afghanistan.
        They recently beheaded a group of teens for listening to music, and of course, shot that poor girl in Pakistan for keeping a record of what life was like in Swat under them – not much fun I gather.
        They seem to be under the impression that your scriptures condone all this genocidal behaviour.
        You should also tell the Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia that they have got it all wrong, and the Iranian regime of course – they just hang girls from cranes there for no apparent reason at all.

        Keep up the good work!

        • Yahya John

          Simon Morgan! I had the similar views some years before but now after studying and research I discover that most of the Muslims do not follow the religion properly! Christian and Atheists are anti Islam and I can see their Anti-Islam or Islamophobic signs in you!! so no surprise

          • Trofim

            “I discover that most of the Muslims do not follow the religion properly!”

            Thank Christ for that. Ooh, I didn’t mean literally.

        • proudmuslima

          Whereas among non Muslims, there is no murder, no paedophilia, no incest, no criminal activities – just perfection.
          Thanks for enlightening me.

      • Rahman Abdul

        Pedophilia is not Islamic?
        I guess the 9 or 11 years old wives from Iran, and many other parts of the Islamic world, would respectfully disagree with you. In fact, pedophilia is institutionalized.

        Every one remembers the sweet, little wife of Mhd. called Aisha? Sure we all do :)

        Modern day Islamic apologists will very often claim that Aisha had reached puberty by the time Muhammad married and had sexual intercourse with her. However, they never provide verifiable proof for this bold assertion.

        This is of course completely false, as demonstrated by the hadith and the commentary of one of Islam’s most famous scholars, Imam Al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar Al-‘Asqalani, Commander of the Faithful in Hadith, Qadi of Egypt, and author of the celebrated commentary on Sahih Bukhari, “Fateh al-Bari.”

        To prove that Aisha was still pre-pubescent when Muhammad married and had sex with her, one has to understand Ibn Hajar’s explanation of the permissibility of doll-playing for pre-pubescent girls in Islam. Applying this doll-playing exegesis to the hadith of Aisha getting married or when she first had sex with Muhammad, one can effectively demonstrate that she was pre-pubescent on these occasions.

        Only pre-pubescent girls were allowed to play with dolls.
        This is what the great hadith scholar, Shaykh al-Islam Imam Al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar Al-‘Asqalani, Commander of the Faithful in Hadith, Qadi of Egypt, had to say in regards to doll-playing and little girls:

        Sahih Bukhari
        Narrated ‘Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah’s Apostle used to enter they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for ‘Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
        Sahih Bukhari 8:73:151

        I have over 80 references from numbers of hadiths and books, by many renown Islamic scholars, to Mhd pedophilia, Aisha’s age and prove of her being pre-pubescent girl. Would you like me to demonstrate further your immense ignorance, and total lack of knowledge of the religion you dedicated your life to?

        Just stop the lies, you only embarrass yourself.

        • Trofim

          You’re a useful bloke to know, Rahman Abdul. We could do with more like you, and SebaKL who’s posted here. We should have courses in Deconstructing Islam, if we could find some bombproof venues, and armoured cars for the participants. Keep up the good work.

        • Yahya John

          Hello Fake Rehman Abdul, the age of Amman Aisha was always a dispute but If you know all the references then you should know why Prophet Muhammad (SAW) did that? Did he not do all acts under the command of Allah (God). Non-Muslims used to curse and beat him because of his blind obeying to Allah. What do you think that by spreading this disinformation you can make Muslim hate him. This is always remain a dream of non-muslims.
          We believe Allah asked only him to marry our Mother “Amman Aisha” and that’s it. if Allah command him then who we are to argue… We believe Prophet has given her respect and dignity by marrying her with a big announcement, She was also her student and I think that was another reason that Allah wanted to use her great memory to store prophets sayings. God knows best.
          In contrast, Thousands of atheist Parents do s_x with their children because they believe they are animal, even animal do not do the same. Thousands of woman are reverting back to Islam because of experiencing this horrible acts by this atheist mindset.
          Islam gives woman a respect, dignity, protection and Love.
          and Atheist believe that woman is need like food and thirst. They live with woman as a partner and do not marry because its ok for them live like animals and without giving full right to woman. Woman even do not know the name of their children fathers and children always remain a result of public disorder..Shame on this type of society!!

          • Abdul Rahman

            Wow, that desperate attempt to defend a prophet pedophile, is just what it is, sad attempt, which hold no water.

        • Abdul Rahman

          Hey :) Same name :) I’m feel honored, and we both former muslims?
          They should warn mothers not to use these names for kids, it obviously increase chances of our departure from Islam :)

      • rodney

        I’m sorry but ‘very intelligent’ people don’t say they are very intelligent. The reason has nothing to do with modesty, but with the fact that you are not the right person to judge such a thing. And neither are you the right person to know if the people who consider you ‘very intelligent’ are telling the truth, or trying to make you feel better for being below average intelligence, or having a joke behind your back etc.

        As for your strange comment that murdered girls are questioned on judgement day, shouldn’t it be the murderers who are questioned on judgement day (or even sooner)? And what happens on judgement day if the girl confesses to having been in the same car as a man who wasn’t her father or brother? What good does being questioned do if the questioner responds, “Well, in that case you deserve everything you got”.

        Despite being ‘very intelligent’ you seem to have missed the main point which is that the Qur’an is either so unclear that there are literally millions of Muslims who misunderstand its ‘true message’, or that it really does advocate the killing of girls for minor offences. Sorry, that doesn’t strike me as being ‘very intelligent’.

        • Londoner

          Although I do agree that Islam is a dated religion – as is Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism – in the sense that it has not been updated for quite a while and what was revolutionary at the time does not hold true and cannot work now. Humans and their conditions change and a rigid religious text that is set in stone and does not adapt is useless. Having said that, I know for a fact that FGM, paedophilia, etc. do not exist in any Koranic text nor were among the early teachings of Islam. If the Taliban claim to be an offshoot of Islam, they have brought in their own rigid lifestyle and adorned it with the cloak of Islam. Almost every religion will have its fundamentalists, literalists and bigots. The Koran also has its contradictory texts, which adds moreproblems but it does not preach for FMG and all the other atrocities that people here have cited. Re the comment about murdered girls being questioned, Rodney, you have misunderstood the Koranic text. It states that the murdered girls will themselves face their murderer and question them (in interrogation style) by what fault of her own that she was murdered. Islam, like Christianity, was created by a bunch of folks that added in their own interpretations as the times deemed appropriate.

          • Simon Morgan

            So, the murdered girls get to interrogate their executioner – then what happens? Do the bad boys get the girls in heaven anyway?

            No male will ever get to be sentenced to Hell surely? (excluding gays, of course -I guess they won’t get to question their executioners at all?).

            If the possibility was out there that there was a very real chance of these naughty fellows going to Hell, then I think there would pandemonium in the Muslim world right now. But they seem to be carrying on as normal…..with all that that entails.

            I reckon it’s the first option. They get to bugger the girls in this life and the next.

            Anyway, just so we can have a good laugh, please continue with your interpretation of the Moranic Text (sorry, I meant Koranic – PBNeverUH).

            Oh, on second thoughts, don’t bother. Nobody really cares.

          • Londoner

            ALL religions should be done away with…That is my opinion. Neither Islam believing in the heavenly virgins or Christianity believing in the virgin birth…. Just trying to help you understand the text you were commenting about, Simon Morgan because in between your laughs, you seem to have dropped a line or two. You obviously care….

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ragnar-Eichmann/100001727403374 Ragnar Eichmann

        XX aren’t “Islamic”.XX No. They never ARE “real” are they? Like “Stalin
        was not a ‘real Communist'” and “Moussolinni was not a ‘real Fascist'”,
        and “XYZ was not a real ABC”, or…or…

    • Good civilian

      So you get your information on Islam from Rupert Murdoch and the Dailymail then? Clearly you are a racist who only hangs with white people

      • Baron

        what a clear and incisive argument, Good civilian, Baron’s convinced, any more where this came from?

    • Salaam

      Again confusing culture with religion

      • Sarah

        Religion is culture.

        Why do you think Islam looks exactly like a melding of Arabic, Jewish, Christian and North African culture instead of a melding of Chinese, Native American and Polynesian culture?

  • Kennybhoy

    thank you for an interesting article Miss Kite.

    Interestingly enough, or not, the start of the second series of “Homeland” on the telly provoked a related discussion within my family. This in turn prompted me to go on line to see if I could find anything of interest on this matter and i came the article at the link immediately below.


    In my opinion the article itself is not particularly insightful but the comment by the female Catholic convert from Islam “scary goat” is…

  • Bil

    @ Eddie – “- no-one I know is a knee-jerk papist-hater (maybe in Scotland or Northern Ireland eh?)”
    So the old addage is true, it takes one to know one. What a nasty thing to say but then you did start off referring to “Most British whites” as if they were the only legitimate, indigenous people living here. I recommend you join the BNP as they represent your political views.

  • http://www.facebook.com/garry.otton Garry Otton

    You’ve got to hand it atheists. They don’t stand for *any* of this bollocks.

    • Andreas

      No, atheism gave us Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. Much better.

      • Furor Teutonicus

        And christianity gave us Hitler, Himmler, Heydrich, Eichmann, etc. (Also, you will find that Stalin was training to be a priest in his younger years, so you could also say christianity gave us him as well.)

    • Salaam

      They don’t stand for anything at all

  • Trofim

    What an extraordinary article. Not one mention of the word apostasy, or that converting to Islam is a one-way street, and that the penalty for changing your mind is death, enshrined in law in most Muslim majority countries, or if you’re lucky enough to live in the west, a not so nasty fate, in that Muslims will make the victim’s life as unpleasant as lawfully possible, but will not murder you – which is sweet. Are these people really so astonishingly naive? That’s what I find so extraordinarlly frightening.
    I see a future with lots and lots of child-custody cases, men b*ggering off back to the middle east or Pakistan with the kids, and lots and lots of women who didn’t realise what they were getting into. Jesus wept.
    Is it true that, like travellers, a menstruating woman is not allowed to cook food in a Muslim home?

    • Cantara

      The answer to your question is NO. Simple if it was true, how would a menstruating Muslim women cook food for her husband and her family. The only things that a menstruating Muslim women can’t do are do the 5 daily prayers and be in the room of people praying.

      • Trofim

        “Simple if it was true, how would a menstruating Muslim women cook food for her husband and her family.”
        No problem – her husband and kids can do the cooking! Men are better cooks, anyway.
        So what would happen if she was in the room when people were praying? Would the prayers all go wrong? Anyway, who’s going to know? And another thing I’d like to know: are men allowed to masturbate? If not, then I’m not going to convert.

        • Cantara

          Men work so dont have time to cook.
          The women is classed as un-clean when menstruating so its not appropriated for the be with people who are doing salat. It is a messy time when women are menstruating. Trust me, I know as I feel really dirty when its happerening to me.
          Maturbateing is forbidden in Islam.

          • Generalblight

            That’s a shame. there’s nothing wrong with ‘materbateion’. Must say though this article is difficult to wank to:-

          • Dhimmitude Ishere

            Muslim men work?

          • Trofim

            “It is a messy time when women are menstruating.”
            Yes, I know duck. I used to be a woman myself.

            Masturbating is forbidden in Islam.
            Yes, I think we’ve worked out why there are so many hot-tempered men in Muslim countries!

          • proudmuslima

            Women are not classed as unclean in Islam – that’s in Judaism. Menstruating women are even allowed to enter a mosque especially in Eid, but they cannot pray or fast.
            Messy time?? Perhaps you need wings and a more absorbent pad.
            You shouldn’t feel “unclean” – you should feel proud that your body is functioning the way it should as a woman. You can still have sex while you’re menstruating – just not intercourse.
            Masturbation is not allowed in any religion actually – but I haven’t yet heard of anyone not doing it because of that. It beats sleeping around, I guess.
            My husband is a great cook. Has nothing to do with working at all. I also work – so what?

    • Seth Deacon


    • lucillalin

      Majority of Western converts to Islam “revert” back to Christianity, Agnosticism, Atheism, whatever. Over 70% if I remember correctly revert within one year. After that they simply cease to socialize with their former circles and don’t face any threat, not even from their ex-husbands. After all, many non-Western Muslims think that Western converts are just cherry-picking with the faith and are not that far from the truth…

      The reason for this is that Islam, simple as it first looks is full of rules of everyday life that are hard to follow. Its easier to give up one’s religion than tradition.

      • Trofim

        Any links, sources of information re this? If it’s true, that’s very slightly reassuring.

        • lucillalin

          I’ve seen this percentage in newspaper articles as well, its just not anything the Muslims themselves like to advertise, even that this topic is discussed in Muslim internet forums as well. I did remember a bit incorrectly, according to a study done by a Islamic scholar in USA 75% of converts leave within 3 years. They just change their social circles.

          Apart from those countries where apostasy can get you killed (Iran etc) apostasy is actually quite common and outside the West Islam is competing aggressively with the rising evangelical Christianity.

          • Trofim

            Thanks for the link. Are you Suomi? Your syntax is a bit Finnish.

    • proudmuslima

      You seem to be confusing Judaism with Islam when it comes to the menstruating women.
      I’ve got friends living in Egypt who have decided they no longer believe in God, and guess what – the’re still alive! You’re confusing the attention seeking Salman Rushdie’s of the world who bask in the infamy of it all. God Almighty is the only judge of what is really in your heart, not humans.
      Also FYI – most Muslims are not Arab or for that matter, Pakistani. Maybe you’d like to read up a little on the subject before you post such conclusive remarks in the future.
      BTW – a Muslim would never use the name of Jesus PBUH in such a manner. Funny, right…..

  • Trofim

    By the way, that picture at the top might be offensive to Muslims. Everything else is.

    • http://twitter.com/MJRINSKI MJ-R

      Don’t be a sod.

      And please do think a minute or two before you share your superficial, teenage-style “observations” of the world. Especially when those generalisations concern not two people, not a hundred, not 3 million, but a bloody 1/6th of the world’s population. You’re being silly.

      • Trofim

        By the way, in English we say “fascinated by terrorism” not “fascinated in terrorism”. We must get our prepositions right.

        • http://twitter.com/MJRINSKI MJ-R

          So that’s what you choose to include in your reply. Haha.

          • Trofim

            Do you know the word “subtlety”?

  • Whirlin’ Merlin

    Religion is a conspiracy

  • Ru

    It’s the same thing with children’s names. When a Brit marries a foreigner, the kids always get foreign names.

    • proudmuslima

      Yes, it’s a conspiracy. It’s the “Name them foreign” jihad – because names like Adam, Moses, John, Mary, Gabriel, etc are sooo unIslamic…….
      Turn around – we’re coming to get you – although why anyone would bother with such uneducated trash is beyond me…..

  • http://www.facebook.com/ralph.j.hayes Ralph Hayes Jr.

    “Is it wise?” You see how muslims treat women, and you have to ask?? The question should be ‘are these women drunk, retarded, or insane?’

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Canning/100000880337944 Robert Canning

    How can you decide to adopt a new set of beliefs? I know beliefs can change, but surely you can’t change them deliberately. I wonder if this woman has a post-it on the fridge with a list of things to do before the big day.
    Monday – dress fitting
    Tuesday – choose flowers
    Wednesday – make up gift list and send to John Lewis
    Thursday – phone salon, photographer and caterer
    Friday – start believing that Quran is inspired word of God, surpassing truth of New Testament

    • http://twitter.com/david747400 David

      Saturday – Have all external genitalia and clitoris removed with rusty razorblade, without anaesthetic or antiseptics

      • Cantara

        That is culture, NOT Islam.

        • Simon Morgan

          Do we need to change this ‘culture’ in your opinion? And if so, how are YOU going to go about it?

          • Cantara

            No, You need to learn what is culture and what is religion.
            FGM is a pre-Islamic thing and Muhammad (pbuh) said this is a harsh thing to do to women and not necessary, that is why it is forbidden in Islam.
            In some part of Africa, it came back because the men were protecting the virginity of there women from westeren men back in 1800s and early 1900s. Now its not necessary and that is the reason why is a culture thing, not a Islamic thing.
            You know that FMG happerens to Christian girls and women in some parts of Africa. I bet you didnt know that.

          • http://georgeigler.com/ George Igler

            @0fe11773bb73a9b428cb2b4fdad27c49:disqus That is a blatant lie. FGM is not, and *cannot* be “forbidden” (as you say) by any school of Islamic jurisprudence whatsoever, precisely because it is Sunna. The most favourable conclusions that can be drawn from non-heretical theology, is that female circumcision is “non-obligatory in *some* schools”. That’s it. Please do not use these comments to spread further untruths. The Reliance clearly states FGM as compulsory in the Shafi’i school.

            If it was forbidden by the tradition of the Islamic prophet,
            and the legal systems developed from his life – as you pretend – then FGM would be “haram” there would be fiqh judgements condemning it, and prosecutions of practitioners of it in the Islamic world. There are none of these things.

            You should really learn to stop lying on public fora. The primary sources are easily available to anyone who cares to look.

            Valid commentaries include:
            “Imam Nawawi said (commenting on the hadith of Abu Hurayra in Muslim): “Circumcision is obligatory (wajib) according to al-
            Shafi`i and many of the scholars, sunna according to Malik and the majority of them. It is further, according to Shafi`i, equally obligatory for males and females. As regards males it is obligatory to cut off the whole prepuce or skin which covers the glans or head of the penis, so that the latter is wholly denudated. As regards females, it is obligatory to cut off a minute part of the skin in the highest region of the genitals. The sound view in our school (Shafi`i), which is shared by the large majority of our companions, is that circumcision is allowed in a youthful age but not obligatory (at that time). One view is that the guardian must have the child circumcised before he or she reaches puberty. Another view is that circumcision is prohibited before the tenth year. The sound view according to us, is that circumcision is desirable on the seventh day after birth.”

            “Nuh Keller’s Translation of al-Misri’s “Reliance of the Traveller” (Shafi`i school) p. 59: “Circumcision is obligatory (Sh. `Umar Barakat: for both men and women). For men it consists of removing
            the prepuce from the penis, and for women, removing the clitoris. (Sh. `Abd al-Wakil Durubi: Hanbalis hold that circumcision of women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanafis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband.)”

          • Iman Akef

            If you think it is not forbidden, please check the fatwa that our grand mufti (here in Egypt) issued about a year ago which forbade this practice. This practice is as you said recommended in some schools , but not present in others, and in the end this is a science called “fiqh” which has the flexibility to adapt and change according to the times and circumstances but it is not me or you who can argue in it but the grand scholars who have devoted their lives in these studies and understand it well. For exmple did you know that while hijab is obligatory in Islam, scholars said that it is not obligatory on Muslim women in the states right after September 11th (when they were harassed) to wear it. It might as well surprise you that the country which applies the strictest interpretation of Islam ; Saudi does not have this practice, which brings us to one conclusion and that it originally originated from culture in Africa, nor is it present in lots of Muslim Asian countries.

          • http://georgeigler.com/ George Igler

            @045376af171ee380e5fa60697ace3a50:disqus I know precisely the fatwa to which you refer, and it would be quite wrong to say that this isolated judgement was not met with howls of protest and controversy. Occasionally the innate humanity of some fiqh scholars prompts them to try and curtail FGM, but they always run up against the fact that the practise is Sunna, that is, based on the tradition of the Islamic prophet. Which is why any real attempt to suppress the practise is religious heresy.

          • proudmuslima

            What about the African Christians having FGM done to their daughters? Are they following the “Sunna”, too……

          • Villiers

            All very well … and intermarriage could normally be considered the first step towards integration. But in the district of Berlin in which I live, women are treated by Moslem men as their property. There is no provision for divorce. If a marriage breaks down, the children automatically belong to the Moslem father. Sons can marry Christian girls who must then convert. But daughters can never marry outside the faith of their family. Under these conditions, cultural and social integration is actively discouraged by Moslems. I would be surprised if Melissa´s friend isn´t in for a nasty shock in the not too distant future.

          • Furor Teutonicus

            Am in Steglitz. Not too bad here, but is getting worse.

          • proudmuslima

            Conversion is not a must, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar. Muslim women cannot marry non Muslim men – deal with it.
            Have you ever wondered why these women are marrying Muslim men – are all the other men in Berlin impotent or homosexual? Obviously this is what they want to do.

          • Furor Teutonicus

            XX For exmple did you know that while hijab is obligatory in Islam,XX

            aye right. That’s why we hardly saw a single one here until September 12th, now you can not move for women who think a bin bag is a fashion item.

            If it was obligatory, why did they not wear it before?

            Not a political statement, rather than a tradition, by any chance?

          • proudmuslima

            The same all over the world – a lot more hijabs nowadays. It is obligatory, but because we have free will, you can choose to wear it or not. However, when you try and attack a people because of their religion, the normal response is that they will hold onto it more and become more religious. You all probably deserve a big thank you, actually.

          • jahirun01

            If its sunna, then why is it that I as a muslim woman from an asian country (majorithy muslim) have not been circumcised. I ahve never met any muslim woman (perhaps apart from Somalia perhaps) who have been circumcised.

          • Rahman Abdul

            Why are you such a lair?

          • Simon Morgan

            George Igler says it much more eloquently and factually than I will. You have completely lost what argument you had with the risible statement that there is no FGM in Islam.

            Whether some nutcase Christians practiced this savagery in darkest Africa is neither here nor there – the topic here is Islam (as it always is). PBUU -Peace Be Upon Us !!…

          • proudmuslima

            Deflection is so convenient, don’t you think……..

          • proudmuslima

            I fully stand against female genital mutilation in whichever country it is practiced, and whether done by Muslims or Christians (yes, you read correctly – read up on Christian African practices). It is definitely and in no way a part of Islam.

        • http://georgeigler.com/ George Igler

          Religion CAUSES culture. Doofus.

          • proudmuslima

            Nope it doesn’t. Culture depends on the country you’re in – nothing to do with religion, seeing as there are Muslims in every country on Earth and they do not all have the same culture.

          • Salaam

            Doofus- really? I mean seriously- look who’s talking- culture stems from personal desire as well

        • http://twitter.com/SirZaidHamid Zaid Hamid ® ☾☆

          Iranian female students are not allowed to study certain subjects that includes Computer, Micro Biology in accordance with Shariat.

          Clerics advised females not to touch banana or cucumber as it gives them feel of penis.

          One Complete burkha clad Saudi Woman was accused of creating a fight between a passer by and her hisband because her eyes were too tempting.

          Is it culture or Islam?

        • Verk

          Is drugging, raping and pimping teenage girls ‘culture’ too?

      • jahirun01

        David, in the name of sexual satisfaction (for men that is) women in the western world are getting hymens tightened and other bits and pieces adjusted to cater to the sexual pleasures of men. Yes, this is just a minority of stupid women who do that but femaile circumcision is a cultureal phenomena and its certainly not part of the islamic faith.

  • Fitzmark2

    Fergus Pickering
    Bertrand Russell said, “When I say that I cannot disprove the existence of God, I should also point out that I cannot disprove the existence of the Homeric Gods.”
    All religions are based on absurd superstitions and fit only for the childish mind.

  • Fitzmark2

    Fergus Pickering
    Bertrand Russell said, “When I say that I cannot disprove the existence of God, I should also point out that I cannot disprove the existence of the Homeric Gods.”
    All religions are based on absurd superstitions and fit only for the childish mind.

  • sam

    “But above all, I like the moral certainties. I don’t mind the dogma one
    bit. I would rather dogma and impossible ideals than confusion and

    I seem to recall that the problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so sure of themeselves, and wiser men so full of doubt.

    Or at least someone told me that once.

  • blackbook99

    Did you engage your tiny, islamophobic brain at any point during the writing of this laughably hypocritical piece, Melissa? Sadly, I suspect not.

  • Cantara

    This my view. The women who said the Shahada but was not willing to follow Islam properly is not a Muslim and Allah knows thats. Those words were empty and meaning less. Some is only is Muslim if they truly berlive in the words of the Shahada in their heart and are willing to follow the 5 pillars of Islam and live our lifes in that Allah has told us to thought the Quran.

    • Luisa Navarro

      Could you at least write proper English?

      • Furor Teutonicus

        Could you at least write CORRECTEnglish.

        Gee, it take a German to teach you your own bloody language, and then you go criticizing others?

      • Cantara

        What do you mean? What I have written is proper English. English is the only Langue I know. If its some of the Muslim terms, use your brain and look them up.

      • Cantara

        In the part of the sentences saying “Some is only is Muslim”, I meant someone, not some. Thats what I get for typing too fast. It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to know what I meant.

  • Turkishmuslimah

    I think a lot of education is needed both sides.

    • Sim,on Morgan

      I’m not joining any mad madrassah to further community cohesion, thank you very much! I’ve put up with this BS for far too long already. If I never hear hear the words Muslim, fatwa, Jihad, taliban -blah, blah, blah- that will suit me just fine. But of course, there is zero chance of that.

  • BlitheSpirit

    What would Melissa’s friend’s husband say if one of their children decided to abandon the Islamic faith in favour of Catholicism, or Judaism, or Wicca for that matter?

    Easy enough to covert, but watch the fireworks when the teenagers decide it’s not for them and want rid of it.

    • Samir/Sam/Samuel/Shamir

      i think your trying to singularise islam in your argument but the truth would be you get despots that follow every brand of religious faith, my father is a muslim, my mother is catholic and i am agnostic. please do not condemn us all with your niave generalisations.

      • Jennifer

        Do not taint all faiths/religions with the same Islamic brush. Eastern philosophy based faiths have yet to produce religious mass murderers, despots and terrorists so regularly produced by Christianity and Islam. Not all religions are intolerant and keen to convert others not like them as these two do. In fact, both Christianity and Islam are the two of the kind that has wrought havoc on humanity like no other. They’re a blot on human conscious.

        • MahmudH

          You mean eastern philosophies like Buddhism? I guess you’ve not heard of the Buddhist cheerleaders for the sectarian war and repression in Sri Lanka, and the Buddhist martial philosophy of Imperial Japan, which told soldiers in WW2 they should show no mercy to their American, European and Chinese enemies.

          • Salaam

            Exactly- and what of BUDDHISTS being responsible for the ill treatment of the most persecuted people on Earth- the Rohingya

          • Verk

            “The most persecuted people on earth”…? That is fucking hilarious. Ah diddums, some little muzzie wuzzies aren’t being allowed to rape the local teenagers and impose their joyless views on others? Bless, how awful for them.

      • Trofim

        I think what you say is worth listening to. After all with a Muslim father, a Catholic mother and you agnostic, you are representative of a very wide swathe of the population – around, erm, %0.03, I should think.

        • MahmudH

          Actually, since that is subject of the article, he is representative of the population of interest.

  • Nele Schindler

    Why would we Christians or ‘communities’ care about some dim girl adding her name to the Islamic register? Let this rotten religion have all the half-witted, backbone-lacking cretins – that should leave us with the hardcore, Jesus-loving God warriors, and that’s exactly the way it should be. Hallelujah!

    • Simon Morgan

      We should all care about the religion of savages gaining 1 more follower. It’s bad news for the human condition.

    • Dhimmitude Ishere

      All non-Muslims need to care for, as pointed out in the article, any off-spring of this dim girl’s infatuation with her swarthy suitor will be brought up as Muslims. They and subsequent generations will in turn breed prodigiously all the time claiming as much in benefits from the infidel state, This income will be spent in Muslim owned businesses or remitted back to their true mother countries. There will be an even greater imposition of Halal approved foods on the non-Muslim population than there already is and, as their numbers inexorably grow in comparison to other communities, increasing restrictions on the rights of others and demands (which will be hard to resist) for adherence to Sharia.

      Unfortunately the glib unthinking decisions of these thick women who are entranced by Muslim men will have dire consequences for the rest of us.

      • Furor Teutonicus

        XX There will be an even greater imposition of Halal approved foods on the non-Muslim population than there already isXX

        That is why I only eat pork. Halal THAT you bastards!

        • proudmuslima

          LOL. I believe you – you probably look like one too.

    • http://twitter.com/SirZaidHamid Zaid Hamid ® ☾☆

      Oh.. you do need to care about it.. believe me.. the recent converts and their first two generation are the most dangerous ones. Just look at history or around you. The recent converts are the ones causing the most of trouble. The reason is that they have to “prove their loyalty to Islam”. Just look at the Islamic preachers in Western world who go around organizing seminars, all are recent converts. Muhammad Ali Jinnah, a 1st gen Muslim, created Pakistan. Dr Zakir Naik a 2nd gen Muslim is responsible of thousands of conversion in India thanks to heavy funding by Saudis.

      And if you think you should not be worried when one converts to Islam, come to India to see the results of the conversion. Around 90% of Indian Muslims were Hindus once. They were converted mostly by force by the Muslim invaders. But the present generation hails the invaders as their heroes and they think that their ancestors were Arabs and they belong to Arab.

      Trust me on this.. when these Muslims grow to a significant number, the West will not be able to breathe. You are already feeling the heat with 5-10% Muslims. Imagine the situation when they are 25%.

      Western people are so naive and so are most of Indians. They keep on pacifying the Muslims in the hope of them being less aggressive and bring them to main street but the Muslims always play victim and never change their attitude.

      You will be courteous, respectful to them while they will keep demanding to do more and provide them of special status and special facilities. They will demand separate set of rules for them, special changes in law to accommodate Muslim needs and finally they will demand Sharia to be implemented as Sharia is the true law in their eyes (demonstrated beautifully by Talibans).

      • Dhimmitude Ishere

        Well said, Sir. My Asian (not Indian) wife first opened my eyes to the insidious nature of Islam over twenty years ago and said that we were foolish in the extreme (although she didn’t couch it in such delicate language) if we thought that being nice to Muslims and trying to accommodate their demands would be seen as anything more than weakness with each capitulation simply providing a new starting point for the next demand.

        Her view was and remains that wherever this has been tried the host is inevitably overrun (through the polygamy driven breeding system of Muslims) or subject to increasingly violent assaults as mini-enclaves are established.

        I disagree with her about many things but in this case I can only applaud her perspicacity.

  • Colin Reeves

    It should be obvious that this woman never was a Christian in the first place. I have a friend who became a Christian after a Catholic upbringing (which never explained real Biblical Christianity to her, as it hasn’t to Ms Kite either). She works with two Muslims who tried to convert her. Her response was simple: “God has forgiven my sins because of Jesus Christ. What can you possibly offer me to beat that?”

    • Cogito Ergosum

      A moslem once said to me: “We have had Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Why do people not just accept the latest version?”

      I replied: “One man’s revelation is another man’s heresy”.

    • proudmuslima

      So you believe that Jesus is not God?

  • anyfool

    It seems everyone has a story to tell these days about a friend becoming a Muslim,
    Hopefully mainly in your circles, you should pick your friends more carefully or you will have a few lodgers when the family drives this air-headed woman out of the home,
    This will probably happen after she pops a few buns out of the oven and just before the girls reach puberty, it might last longer if she still has money of her own.
    Still this woman has an itch to scratch and no amount of evidence will stop her scratching as she is thinking “because I am worth it”.

  • Trofim

    Mohamed, it turns out, was what we could refer to as a Jimmy Savile type of bloke.

  • Matt

    Think the author of this article isn’t especially knowledgeable about Islam, like she’s dashed off a quick 1000 words to advertise her ignorance. No matter. There’s a lot of it about. As someone else has pointed out in the comments, for people who adhere to a belief centered around an imaginary friend – whatever you wish to call that entity (God, Allah, Yahweh, Zeus etc) – it probably isn’t a massive intellectual leap to convert to another belief system. Christians are ′Ahl al-Kitāb’ after all, though I will concede that within Islam there appear to be greater cultural constraints against making that transition.

  • http://twitter.com/SirZaidHamid Zaid Hamid ® ☾☆

    By the way it is happening all over the world. Young Muslim men are advised by the clerics to woo non-Muslim girls and convert them to Islam. Its called “Love Jihad”.

    The men pretend as if they are not religious or they don’t care about religion but since it is a requirement, the girl has to convert to Islam. Once she converts, its over for her as she cannot go back and the next generation is Muslim. Simple logic.

    • proudmuslima

      A load of BS, actually. Muslim men can marry women of any faith that believe in God Almighty. They do not have to convert (revert) to Islam whatsoever. Why are these girls marrying Muslim men anyway? Are non Muslim men too busy molesting young girls ? Or are too many homosexual nowadays?

  • Charles

    Isn’t it more appropriate for Christians to look at why people convert to Islam rather than how to stop people from converting? Why so many Anglicans recently embraced Catholicism and why Catholics abandon their faith? Christians have diluted their faith over centuries to adapt to new social changes rather than be a leading social force and those in search of guidance look at other horizons being it Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism etc.

  • Dylan

    “You may knock us Papists for being bigots, but at least we stand up for what we believe.” Oh, so to you it’s more important to be an ignorant biggot and hurt other people with your beliefs than to be a good person? To change your mind isn’t a sign of weekness, it’s a sign of growth. And yes, it’s shocking how many women are converting to a faith that is so horrible to them. And if the woman doesn’t feel the weight of her new religion her female offspring usually do. I’m not saying people shouldn’t convert to islam: just make sure you have all the facts and know what you’re getting yourself into.

    • Luisa Navarro

      Yes, honey, it is. Let “the woman” be as idiotic as she feels like…

  • http://www.facebook.com/orrin.thomas1 Orrin Le Stéphanois Thomas

    ineffectual at faith preservation…. Do you and I live in the same world?..get real

  • Camille Pele

    I find these comments as strange as I find the debates that are currently going on in our country in relation to the best solution for successfull religious and cultural integration. It is really quite simple to me. Any person with any religious belief is welcome to practice and believe as they please, but the laws of our country are very clear and if you don’t like them and your religion and*or culture, makes it impossible for you to live by them and our values, then find a country that better fits with your value system.

    And in relation to the comments regarding whether various heinous acts like FGM are down to culture or religion, who cares? Any practice or action, cultural or religious that is not welcome in our wider society and is not legal in our country, should be stopped and those responsible asked to leave the country, or conform to our rules.

    The government needs to grow a set of balls, and take religion as far away from the legal system as possible. All faith schools should be made illegal, and instead every child in this country should be allowed to study without being brainwashed. What their parents teach them at home is their choice providing that every aspect of their teachings are compatible with the laws and values in this country, inculding equality between men and women and a person’s right to marry whoever they please regardless of their religion or beliefs.

    In addition, every child should be taught about what each religioin means and believes, in order for each child to see that there are many different beliefs in this world and hey they can’t all right! They should also be taught in correlation with these studies about religion in history and present times, and the many wars it has caused and atrocities that have been commited in the name of religion. Some of the Catholic churches past actions are as bad as the lunatics following Sharia Law, and honour killings, etc today.

    Home schooling should be illegal too, it should be for the government to set a programme and for parents to educate further if they please. This should put an end to brainwashing.

    And every little boy and girl in every school should be taught how to cook and clean, and the basics on running a home to make it quite clear from an early age that males and females are equal, and the path that THEY choose to take as educated adults is then up to them. But yes little Muslim girl, if you want to become an engineer then you go little girl.

    And this is controversial, but the more that certain gods are mocked by cartoons etc in our society, the better. Christians had to get used to Jesus Christ mocking tshirts, cups, etc about a decade ago from my recollection and it has done everyone good to realise that because you believe in a god doesn’t mean that others have to.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ulysse.colonna Ulysse Colonna

    What is truly alarming is how well connected these new converts are.
    Considering that almost every one knows a convert and that there are 100,000 of them (0.17% of the population) that means that every new convert knows at least some 600 people. These people ought to be real trendsetters and a tidal wave of conversions is about to hit these shores.
    This or you are over-stretching a single example and giving it a general value it does not have. The fact that the groom was Turkish should have immediately labelled it as an outlier.

  • Kevin

    Even so, he [Miliband] didn’t like organised religion

    That is OK. I do not like organised political parties either.

  • Mike

    Yet another article that confirms that ALL religions are little more than arbitrary nonsense.

  • islam is the only way

    ”switch to a rival firm” what I don’t understand is why should it bother you if a women with no faith, doesn’t believe in god. chooses to be a Muslim, Perhaps consider that religion will change her as a person, and islam is not a rival to the religion of Christianity, islam is the true religion, there is no god but allah and Muhammed is his last messenger, you are just threatened by the statistics you have read, that islam is growing. Finally shame on you for generalising those statistics, you took one of your friend and generalised it to a population, your sample size is poor and so is your knowledge.

    • Trofim

      “islam is the true religion, there is no god but allah and Muhammed is his last messenger,”

      Sorry, no longer true. An angel came to me the other night, and he said “Trofim, you are god’s last messenger. Ignore Mohammed – you are the last prophet. So there! I am the last messenger, and I command everyone to eat lots of bacon – because Allah is very fond of bacon, and so is his wife Mrs Allah.

      • proudmuslima

        There are lots of people who have the same feelings as you do – they’re having ECT as we speak.
        Why do you have this need to be “special”? Who did this to you??

  • trevor21

    Islam,a despicable ‘faith’ that gives rise to a disreputable ‘culture’. Simple.

    • proudmuslima

      “Simply stupid” is more apt.

  • Ryan Browne

    He’s spewing a load of obnoxious, bigoted criticisms of another faith, without looking at the hypocrisies of the stance he holds. How can you deem Islam a less plausible religion than Christianity? You guys believe that a guy came back from the dead! What absolute nonsensical drivel you portray in this article.

  • MrsK

    There is no compulsion in Islam – No one should be pressurised to ‘convert’ I am married to a Turkish man and have never ever been asked to convert in the 11 years we have been together. I married a ‘man’ not a religion.

    Your friend needs to ask herself why she is even considering converting or as it should be known ‘reverting’ as Islam believes we are all born with a belief of God (fitrah) and people who ‘revert’ are basically returning to the one true faith.

    I cannot believe half of the nonsense people are writing on here in reply to this silly article. People the world over are being killed in the name of organised religion, whilst we are all on here talking nonsense the ‘powers that be’ get on with the killing.

    “Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a
    heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of
    the people” – Karl Marx

  • BalqisDeCesare

    Fanny way to deliver a series of bigot and racist statements . Muslim men can marry from chaste women of the people of the Book, so if British ladies are embracing Islam, that must be for true faith, or because of cultural background of their fiancee family . It is not easy to give shahada, at least serious imams will not allow people to enter Islam just for convenience . And as an ex-catholic, I wouldn’t say Christians are too polite . Probably they have a high level of flexibility, or maybe they just don’t bother about a religion they follow just on papers .

    • Trofim

      Marry chaste women? Why marry a chaste woman? A chaste woman is a boring woman. And see my message below – I am God’s last messenger. I supersede Mohammed. Mohammed is now defunct.

      • Jenny

        Troffin, Mo was clever and foresaw the likes of you who would claim to be the messenger(s) from god in the future and closed that particular loophole by insisting that he is the last prophet. Sadly for you, nearly a billion people believe in that ruse.

      • Furor Teutonicus

        And all their wee shi'(i)tes are your nephews?

  • Jennifer

    Women, who convert to Islam suffer from low self-esteem and often feel the need of a stronger person to guide them through their life. They feel that their sole purpose in life is to submit to and please their partners. As children, they’re often abused, neglected or discarded. They’re not always un-intelligent and often surprise you with their lucidity, but they seldom achieve higher education, are simple in mind, forgiving in nature and easily led. They often go on to produce more than four babies, do not work, depend on welfare and spend their time cooking, cleaning, ferrying kids and shopping at Tesco or Lidl. Their contribution to the society is precisely zero – a perfect match for Islam.

    • MahmudH

      Thanks for that random, arbitrary torrent of ill-founded prejudice.

    • jahirun01

      Look up Sarah Joseph, a convert to Islam. I do not see her as un-intelligent, weak, having low self esteem.
      Just listen to yourself!!!!! Since when do western women have the monompoloy of being strong, independent, and intelligent.
      Countires like Bangladesh, Sri-Lanka, Pakistan and even in many arab countries there is a higher representation of women in parliment and indeed as head of Governments.
      and what a drivel of stereotypes and prejudice. I don’t think i have to go very far to see an ill educated woman, who has such little self esteeem taht she has to go and rubbish her sister in humanity for being’ ‘simple in mind’ ‘easily led’ ‘needing a strong person to guide them1!!!!
      You are approaching this from a feminist argument and I as a muslim woman (muslim, divorced single mother) would argue that feminism does not just exist for the career minded. Its about CHOICE for women, and about how they live their lifes. I have respect for teh woman who gives up a career to look after her chldren. motherhood is not an easy vocation at all and you only have to look around society to see the product of parenting gone wrong.
      If you want stupidity, perhaps you should browse through the magazine of cosmopolitan where women can read about how many orgasms they’re having, are they having too many, too less, how they can please their man, please themselves, have mindblowing sex And they can realise that the epitome of true happiness lies in buying a designer pair of shoes/handbag worth more then your averAGE persons monthly/annual salary.

  • Lovefordeen

    Are the disbelievers not aware that the heavens and the earth were once fused together in a single piece, and then We split them apart? We made every living thing from water? So won’t they believe? And We put firm mountains on the earth, lest it should sway under them, and set broad paths on it, so that they might follow the right direction, and We made the sky a protected ceiling, but they, from its signs, are turning away. It is He who created night and day, the sun and the moon, each floating in its orbit. We have not granted everlasting life to any other human being before you either [O Muhammad] – if you die, will [the disbelievers] live for ever? Every soul is certain to taste death: We test you all through the bad and the good, and to Us you will all return.

    [Chapter 21, Verses 30-35]

    • Furor Teutonicus

      Aye right. Any chance of a couple of tabs of the same acid you are on?

    • Trofim

      What a silly Allah! I should have been Allah – I’m much more intelligent.

  • http://twitter.com/henrymcg henrymcg

    I do wonder if there’s a kind of ‘trendiness’ involved in these conversions. It’s fashionable in some circles to blame the UK for all the worlds ills (which is ridiculous). It’s similarly fashionable for some to go on and on about the ‘decline’ of Britain.

    I’m not happy to see this – though I suppose leftists will shout ‘racist’ (about conversions to a religion?) – why the erosion of our own culture became a good and fashionable thing I do not know.

    And the fact that some educate our white children that their history and culture are worthless is – well treason for one thing – but a crime committed against those children (who don’t feel part of any cause greater than themselves) as well.

    • Trofim

      “I do wonder if there’s a kind of ‘trendiness’ involved in these conversions.”
      Absolutely. It’s from the same stable as wearing a Che Guevara teeshirt, or one of those arab tea towels round your neck: “Look at me, I’m so cool and anti-imperialist. I’m allying myself with the world’s oppressed minorities”.

  • yakuf

    So what you’re saying is it was so shocking to you b/c you had such strong feelings towards your religion. She doesn’t. So don’t see why you’re making a big fuss here.

  • davidshort10

    So, fewer than 0.02pc of adult females convert to Islam every year and this becomes the cover story in the dumbed-down Spectator!

    • Trofim

      Evidence for stats please.

      • davidshort10

        You can work out the number of adult females converting annually from the stats in the article and work out the percentage it represents of the adult female population in the UK.

      • MahmudH

        From article 62% of 5,200 converts are women, gives approx 3,200 women. Adult female population of the UK approx. 25,000,000. 3200/25000000 gives a somewhat lower figure 0.0128%.

  • James Ellis

    Religious articles have the best comments!

    I love how people argue about whats in holy books, when the overwhelming majority of religious people never read them, either because they can’t read, they are not encouraged too are just can’t be bothered, maybe just reading a few select passages someone told them were worth reading.

    So who cares whats in them, it changes with every religious leaders own personal agenda anyway.

    The article itself is boring, your friend converted to a stricter religion, congratulations, who cares? She didn’t care enough for yours so what makes you so sure she’ll care for his?

  • Kljuc

    FWIW I came close to marrying a woman in the 90s, who was about as Muslim as I was Christian. ie. brought up in that community and environment but with no particular conviction or impact on her life. For a few years we were convinced it was not an issue; we were two beer drinking, bacon eating, Friends watching, Stone Roses fans. In short,modern young people of the 90s who didn’t care for what we saw as society’s problem. Over time very obvious, real life questions grew in importance; if we had a child and it was a boy would he be circumcised? For her this was natural, for me it was abhorrent and unthinkable. Would we call our child Christian or Muslim? Not by practice but just by identification. I told her it wasn’t a problem, everyone here calls themselves CofE, it doesn’t mean anything. We were so naive we even thought maybe we could do both, hey what’s the problem we thought. The alternative was nothing but then we realised that not having any religious label in this society is difficult. In the end it dawned on us both that there was no way either I could live with my children being Muslim any more than she could live with hers being Christian. Despite much love between us and shared endeavour, we sadly and reluctantly parted ways. In retrospect we’re probably both glad that we had enough sense to think it through before we committed any further. Anyway, that’s my story, as I said FWIW but that’s the way it was in the 90s for one ordinary British man and a rather wonderful Balkan woman, who I still miss but there you go.

    • Furor Teutonicus

      XX with no particular convictionXX

      A muslim without conviction is either a lier, or it hasn’t been caught yet.

  • Furor Teutonicus

    We all learned everything one needs to know about muslims on 11 September 2001.

    • jahirun01

      and we all probably kjnow what we need to know about white british men by reading about Jimmy Saville and his paedophilia activites and by reading about teh many paedophile rings which have existed in England in teh last few decades.
      Bet you would argue that this is a stupid point.
      I argue back exactly the same point. Your are judging a religion by the actions of a few.

  • davidshort10

    This comment section really sucks compared to the one before. Allowing contributors to reply to each other makes it a real mess.

    • Furor Teutonicus

      Sorry to be replying to your comment 😉

      But don’t knock it. In German web sites, such as this, you get hundreds of comments, and to reply to someone just gets lost somewehere 8 pages later.

      At least with this system, you can either take a person to task, or praise them. Our system is purely “comment and run.” Because to get a “thread” going is nigh on impossible.

  • Simon Morgan

    An Aussie who turned traitor and joined the Taliban back in 2006, may now have his conviction as an enemy combatant overturned because of some technicality. His father, who has campaigned endlessly on behalf of a truly wayward son (he was a criminal long before joining the Taliban) reckons the latest ruling ‘will clear his name’.

    The poor fool doesn’t get it. Whatever David Hick’s legal position might become or is, he will always and forever be a traitor to us. And, we don’t give a stuff about his ‘human rights’ being violated during his years at Camp X-Ray. In fact, they should have booted him out of the airplane taking him and his fellow savages there.
    Unfortunately for the decent people of Australia, this ruling will inevitably lead to a huge compensation claim – lawyers are already champing at the bit. That’s the 21st. century for you – everybody has rights, nobody any responsibilities.

    • proudmuslima

      Good for him.
      The whole concept of human rights in Australia is a bit shady, I agree. Good on paper only. Just ask Assange.
      How’s it feel having a permanent US military base in your country, doofus? hehe
      Australians have sadly never been able to think for themselves; they’re bowing to some Queen till this day, and now cannot bend over backwards fast enough for the US. Some sort of dominatrix complex, perhaps.
      The decent people of Australia are being duped.

  • Jamie

    I’ve heard that a lot of those ‘seeing the light of Islam’ do so once they’ve been imprisoned and discover that Muslims receive preferential treatment behind bars in terms of food and so-called prayer time.

    • MahmudH

      You make it sound like a trade union!

  • http://twitter.com/Edzeteito Eddie Shaw-Smith

    The article didn’t seem to mention British men converting to Islam to marry muslim women. I wonder why.

    • MahmudH

      Probably because the writer is a woman. Most of the converts to Islam I’ve met are men. Again, probably because I’m a man. But most of the men who convert do so independently first, and then go on to look for a muslim wife. They don’t bundle the two together.

  • THD

    Sounds rather like taking out a credit card with a £500,000 limit and no interest on the first £50,000.

  • HorseshitHunter

    This article is far from MK’s best work: converting to Islam for a Western woman is to step back several centuries in a single stride, and if her husband morphs from Sir Galahad into El Assholo immediately thereafter – as is frequently the case – she will be in a seriously bad place, with no escape…I lived in the Gulf for more than 25 years and saw this stuff at first hand…it’s not remotely funny, Mel.
    Incidentally, most of my “Muslim” friends in that region are as Godless as I am – but they dare not out themselves, even to their own families…The comments are better than the piece: on one side (in the main) an interesting, erudite and witty array, and on the other, quite hilarious displays of stupidity from people who are just that bit too dim to recognise their personal lack of intellectual horsepower. Twas ever thus – there are only two types of religious person: (1) the charlatan, who does not believe a word of the infantile nonsense he uses to intimidate and manipulate the dim, and (2) the dumbass, who is incapable of absorbing enough cosmology and biology to get any kind of handle on the Universe we actually inhabit, and is easily guided in the direction of a fairytale next life, especially since this one likely ain’t much fun, as dullards seem conspicuously not to inherit the earth…While we’re at it, there is only one type of religion: every single one of them is a racket…Scientology and Mormonism immediately spring to mind, but look at the wealth of the Catholic Church, Iranian Shia clerics, and countless other examples…why does the worship of an omnipotent God correlate so strongly with the accumulation of worldly treasures? Think of that little ferret, Pope Ratzinger – toiling into the night, devising elaborate schemes (and payoffs) to get his child rapist subordinates off the hook…did he believe God was looking over his shoulder? What about the priests? Did they believe that the Almighty was in the room, watching children being abused? Ah hae mah doots…Bob Dylan captured mankind’s stupidest, most destructive invention perfectly, though he was singing about something else:”the worst kind of scum, exploiting the dumb”We owe it to our children to expose Islam for the poisonous gibberish that it is; we should go out of our way to ridicule the Prophet Mohammed – who, if he existed at all, seems to have been a total arsehole. And we should invite Muslims who disagree with criticisms of their religion to reply with facts and logic. If they instead respond with death threats they should be met with the full force of the law. Look at the craven behaviour of Channel 4 in withdrawing the final episode of “Islam – The Untold Story”. Shame on them, but shame on all of us, too. We wouldn’t put up with this crap from people who worship fire, or wooden poles with faces carved on them…why do we accept Bronze Age campfire ravings – assembled, plagiarised, redacted and ahem, refined over centuries by multiple all-too-human authors – as a Theory of the Universe which merits our respect?

  • DubcekSvoboda

    This article is far from MK’s best work: converting to Islam for a Western woman is to step back several centuries in a single stride, and if her husband morphs from Sir Galahad into El Assholo immediately thereafter – as is frequently the case – she will be in a seriously bad place, with no escape…I lived in the Gulf for more than 25 years and saw this stuff at first hand…it’s not remotely funny, Mel.
    Incidentally, most of my “Muslim” friends in that region are as Godless as I am – but they dare not out themselves, even to their own families…The comments are better than the piece: on one side (in the main) an interesting, erudite and witty array, and on the other, quite hilarious displays of stupidity from people who are just that bit too dim to recognise their personal lack of intellectual horsepower. Twas ever thus – there are only two types of religious person: (1) the charlatan, who does not believe a word of the infantile nonsense he uses to intimidate and manipulate the dim, and (2) the dumbass, who is incapable of absorbing enough cosmology and biology to get any kind of handle on the Universe we actually inhabit, and is easily guided in the direction of a fairytale next life, especially since this one likely ain’t much fun, as dullards seem conspicuously not to inherit the earth…While we’re at it, there is only one type of religion: every single one of them is a racket…Scientology and Mormonism immediately spring to mind, but look at the wealth of the Catholic Church, Iranian Shia clerics, and countless other examples…why does the worship of an omnipotent God correlate so strongly with the accumulation of worldly treasures? Think of that little ferret, Pope Ratzinger – toiling into the night, devising elaborate schemes (and payoffs) to get his child rapist subordinates off the hook…did he believe God was looking over his shoulder? What about the priests? Did they believe that the Almighty was in the room, watching children being abused? Ah hae mah doots…Bob Dylan captured mankind’s stupidest, most destructive invention perfectly, though he was singing about something else:”the worst kind of scum, exploiting the dumb”We owe it to our children to expose Islam for the poisonous gibberish that it is; we should go out of our way to ridicule the Prophet Mohammed – who, if he existed at all, seems to have been a total arsehole. And we should invite Muslims who disagree with criticisms of their religion to reply with facts and logic. If they instead respond with death threats they should be met with the full force of the law. Look at the craven behaviour of Channel 4 in withdrawing the final episode of “Islam – The Untold Story”. Shame on them, but shame on all of us, too. We wouldn’t put up with this crap from people who worship fire, or wooden poles with faces carved on them…why do we accept Bronze Age campfire ravings – assembled, plagiarised, redacted and ahem, refined over centuries by multiple all-too-human authors – as a Theory of the Universe which merits our respect?

  • Steph

    Basically then the message is: “Keep to your own”?
    I don’t really care if adult women choose to convert. They are adults and who they date is their business.

  • Rita H

    she does not know what she did!! her rights and her legal status! i am sure she did no think of that when she converted! poor girl! she does not know what she will be expecting! her future husband will slowly slowly drag her to the Islamic shariaa!
    i wonder if a person can soooo easily change from one religion to an other that fast! you spend a lifetime discovering your religion, how can you convert in a nanosecond!
    i am worried like you about the Christians becoming a minority and so fast!! how can we be blind! and careless!
    Hope your friend knows what she is doing! and what kind of life she is planing to live!

    • jahirun01

      Just get a grip of yourself!!! what hysteria!. yes, tehre are many muslim weomen out there who are oppressed but usually in the most poorest communities. You go to the phillipines,Thailand, mexico, parts of Eastern European. You think there does not exist some form of oppression. LOok at thailand where they have to use their bodies to sleep theirselves out of poverty. Do you really think thats out of choice or does that seem to be a form of liberation to you.

      As for Mexico, in one part of the country – teh police are dealing with crime spree of murders against women. systematic rape and murder, and some of them even suspect that the police/army are involved.

      So, what i’m saying is don’t judge muslims by the way they live their life. See what the quran really says about womens rights and you might just be suprised. muslims women have been given teh right to inherit property, wealth (all in their own names) long before Emily Pankhurst led the suffragette movement. 15-16 centuries ago in fact.

      The hadith which also form a cornerstone (as well as the quran of course) of our faith. A large proportion of it was narrated by none other then a woman (Ayesha RA). Now if we looked down upon wmoen so much, then ask yourself why the word of a woman was believed, trusted and implemented in teh faith????
      A muslim woman :)

    • StephanieJCW

      You do realise that her rights and legal status aren’t affected through conversion to Islam right? And why on earth would her husband drag her to Islamic Sharia? Most muslim women who live in the the UK don’t live in homes dominated by their husbands application of Sharia law.

  • StephanieJCW

    So, in a nutshell ‘stick to your own’?

  • Charlene

    One day this women will realize what she gave up and what sort of problems she will have to face. But then, it is too late. She will live in fear. Cultures are not equal. The multicultural society is problem and not a solution.

  • jahirun01

    As a muslim woman, i have quite strong views about this form of hypocricy. Why should a man who has little regard for his own faith then expect a woman to then regard his faith and become muslim. Islam comes from the heart and faith is only proclaimed when it is imbeddd in the heart, not when its just a matter of a ‘few words’.
    However, lets not undermine the heartfelt converstion to islam of many many converts to the faith. There are many converts who have genuinely looked into Islam, and taken the difficult decision to convert to the faith because they beleive in teh simple message that islam puts forward.

    • Trofim

      Islam comes from the heart? Sorry cock, but the heart is nothing more and nothing less than a muscular organ for pumping blood round the body. Talking about things “coming from the heart” has no place in rational discourse”.

      • jahirun01

        oh for gods sake, i don’t mean literally. i mean that ones belief in a faith, any faith should be ingrained in the self belief that the faith being proclaimed is genuine. by just merely saying the shahadah, does not make you a muslim.

  • Trofim
  • Free will.

    As Jesus said …unless you you are born again of the spirit. you will not see the kingdom of heaven…..all religions are man made set of rules/tradditons.
    People who just convert to a religion for the sake of marriage etc etc etc. cannot have been born again because if they had they would have recognised the truth and as Jesus said …know the truth and the truth shall set you free. And as I have been born again … reconciled to God through his holy spirit …the spirit Leeds those who are of the same spirit to recognise deception…..God is spirit. Check it out in the bible. Jesus tells us…He is the light of the world and anyone who follows him will never walk in darkness but will have the light of life.

  • JJJ

    Why hasn’t the author of the article considered her dogmatism in her own Christianity?
    I’m baffled by this article, as an agnostic.
    She seems to mistrust Isalm and her friend’s conversion to it, but I find that I mistrust her Christianity.

  • Shia muslim

    All of you REALLY need to be more educated before talking. Please inform yourselves about what Islam is and separate the culture from the actual religion. I am a muslim convert (yes a woman), and have converted because I believe it is the true word of God. Im a devout muslim and i do not regret a single second. What these women are doing to convert for marriage is simply stupid because they are not doing it for God, so when they will start living with their husbands these women are going to have to adapt to a WHOLE new lifestyle depending on how religious their husbands are (praying, wearing the veil, going to mosque, fasting, etc) for what.. their husband? that’s ridiculous, i know girls like them and they end up leaving the religion and their husband because it’s too much for them. Also when you convert many of your friends abandon you and family disowns you. If i would have converted for a man to any religion i would have left it a long time ago knowing my parents would never speak to me again, but because i love God i would never turn my back on him and his religion. This journalist should have mentionned that many women actually DO convert for the religion and not for marriage. And when she says :‘You’re a Christian.’ I wanted to add, “You go to nightclubs, drink alcohol, wear skinny jeans, tight tops and make-up. Why on earth are you converting to a faith which thinks you are the infidel?”… Is this how she is portaying christianity? IS that what true christians do.. i don’t think so. And when she says that you dont have to actually be a practicing christian to be called a christian is simply not true, being a christian means following what supposedly Jesus taught in the Bible, if you are not following or dont believe in it then no your not a christian.. same thing goes for any other religion. Oh and for the supposedly “ex-muslim” lady saying that heaven for women is beneath her husbands feet… i dont know where you got that from but the actual saying is : Heaven lies underneath the MOTHER’s feet. Again please get your facts straight before saying something and also read the Quran thoroughly and make an actual research to see what every verse actually means. Because 1 verse in the Quran can have a thousand explanations. Also if you know the arabic language you can truely understand its real meaning. And also i see many quoting from Sahih Bukhari and not from the Quran. These are hadiths and many of them are not reliable. Anyways, thats all i had to say, hoping God will guide you to the truth !

    PS. Many here have no respect for others and their beliefs whatsoever. Please treat others like you would want to be treated.

  • Niels

    You write: But above all, I like the moral certainties.

    Do you mean all the child abuse by catholic priests?

  • http://twitter.com/AbeBird Abe Bird

    Perfect punishment for colonialist Britain !!!!

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