Ukip aren’t going away – and David Cameron has no idea what to do

The Prime Minister’s sniffy attitude to some of his own natural supporters seems quite likely to cost him power

31 May 2014

It must have come so easily back then. In April 2006, the young David Cameron had already assumed the mantle of leader of the Conservative party as arranged by his predecessor, Michael Howard. And as he prepared to assume the next highest office, the insult fell from his mouth with extraordinary ease. ‘Ukip is sort of a bunch of fruit cakes and loonies and closet racists,’ he told his radio interviewer. Deadly. Though not, as it finally turned out, for the party he was attacking.

Last week that same Ukip topped the British polls at the European elections. It knocked the Conservative party into third place and helped cause Britain’s most Europhile party, the Liberal Democrats, to come fifth with a single seat. Ukip also made extraordinary council gains across the country and is now our largest political party not only in Brussels but in significant portions of Britain. It averaged an astonishing 51 per cent of the vote in Boston, Lincolnshire — an area which has suffered unprecedented levels of recent immigration. Ordinarily, lessons would be taken from this. But these are not politically ordinary times.

In the days following the results the Conservative party and its increasingly loyal media chorus focused on everything other than the main story. The parochialism of Westminster politics and the Westminster media lobby — among the forces to have fuelled Ukip’s rise — has rarely seemed greater.

First of all, the proposed lesson of the election was that Ed Miliband, while significantly increasing Labour’s share of council seats, had not increased that share by a vast enough number. This, combined with an alleged inability to eat a bacon sandwich in a properly prime ministerial fashion, persuaded the Westminster media bubble that the story was that Ed is a big loser. The second bubble EU election story was Nick Clegg’s transformation from sometime boy-wonder (in whose eyes exactly?) into bloodshot failure. Both stories are interesting if you are a Westminster-watcher and delightful if you are a Cameron courtier. But the bigger story was avoided. And if Cameron avoids it too then the Miliband premiership will indeed become — as the polls say it will — not a prediction but reality.

Because the deep, underlying story of last week is clear: the British public have made the connection between the EU and mass immigration. They do not like the latter and they blame it on the former. For years polls have continued to show that the vast majority of the British public want immigration reduced. The figures are always similar and we are — it is important to note — never talking about a minority opinion here. One recent poll showed that 77 per cent of the public want immigration reduced, while 78 per cent said that England is overcrowded and a staggering 85 per cent say that immigration is placing too much pressure on public services. It takes an absolutely blind political class not to see what the public can most certainly see.

Unfortunately for the Conservative party, they appear to be led by just such people. Within hours of the results, George Osborne was saying that he ‘respected’ Nigel Farage, but insisted that Ukip does not have ‘answers to the country’s future’. Does he think people will conclude that the Conservative party does? This is the second government in a row which promised to massively reduce immigration while actually seeing it dramatically rise. And while Conservative party spokesmen have insisted that the public had sent a ‘message’ which the government has ‘heard’, it took a Tory grandee — and one of David Cameron’s gurus — to express a less varnished truth.


When Michael Heseltine was interviewed from his country estate on Newsnight the day after the EU election results, it was put  to him that Ukip’s victories represented a ‘repudiation’ of the EU. ‘No, I don’t believe that,’ he replied confidently. So why are people voting for Ukip? ‘Because it’s the place to go to protest about certain things that have been happening which they associate with Europe.’ ‘Associate’? As in ‘a trick of the brain’. And is the party racist? ‘There are racists among them,’ Heseltine replied. ‘I’ve heard enough speeches by Ukip members to make me wince with embarrassment.’

The wincing might easily be reciprocal. For here, in the voice of David Cameron’s mentor, is the true voice of the Conservative hierarchy. ‘It is all a misunderstanding. We hear what you are saying and we are trying to be polite. But you’re wrong.’

Sources in No. 10 say that this politics of repudiation remains the dominant attitude among those surrounding the Prime Minister. Even after the recent elections the message around him remains the same. ‘Don’t worry, Dave. The economy will win it for you. All these errant Ukippers will see sense and vote Tory when they realise how ghastly Ed Miliband is. And by the way, there’s no point in giving any quarter, let alone even considering a deal with Ukip, because they’re all ghastly racists anyway.’

At the root of this de haut en bas Tory attitude is not only a moral but a political miscalculation. It remains assumed that when the public come to the general election they will resist this childish urge to vote Ukip and come back to the party which has been carefully insulting them. The polls, however, show something quite different.

In March, the Conservative peer Lord Ashcroft commissioned an opinion survey of 20,000 people. Among its findings was that of the 2,300 people who said that they would vote Ukip in the general election, just over half (51 per cent) went on to disagree with the statement that ‘a vote for Ukip at the next general election makes the prospect of Ed Miliband becoming prime minister more likely’. A further 16 per cent of Ukip voters said they didn’t know whether they agreed with this or not. Almost a quarter (23 per cent) of Ukip voters said they did believe their vote would make Miliband becoming PM more likely, but said this would not affect their vote. These people have had enough of both parties and will not be moved by claims that there is any serious difference between them. But the most striking thing about the Ashcroft poll is that it means only one in ten EU-election Ukip supporters agrees that a vote for Ukip increases the chances of a Miliband government and acknowledges that this might affect the way they end up voting. So Cameron’s ‘Vote Ukip, get Ed’ line of last resort won’t wash.

Obviously polls like this have to be taken with a degree of caution. People are notoriously unreliable in their estimates of how they may or may not behave a year from now. But there is much about these figures that rings true. In recent days and months I have spoken to a number of Ukip voters who have told me something very similar. Many, though by no means all, are former Conservative voters. Some were once members. And their message is strikingly consistent. They are fed up of being told by politicians of any stripe that they know better than voters what the voters are thinking. And no, they insist, they are not ‘protesting’. They are expressing legitimate concern about the direction this country is heading in. And they are not just delighted but energised by finding a decent political party which shares and expresses their concerns. At a time when the Conservative party is relying on postal votes to ensure its remaining supporters actually vote, it is striking that Ukip voters positively enthuse about the ballot-box experience.

So how might Cameron and co turn it around? Thanks to the outbursts of the past, it is very hard. Cameron could concede that Ukip has some points. It could also do what Ukip can currently only talk about. It is undeniably the case that unless Britain fundamentally alters its relationship with Europe then no UK government can do anything meaningful about immigration levels. He might also finally start to address what the public can so overwhelmingly see — that immigration is not a matter of ‘diversity’ or food variety, but unsustainable numbers.

Will Cameron finally do something about the 100,000 foreign students each year (largely from the Indian subcontinent) who come to this country and fail to leave? Could the Conservative party do what no political party other than Ukip is doing and ask how many people we can actually take in? If immigration continues at the level it has averaged over the last ten years, Britain will be adding 10 million more people to the population in the next 20 years. That means building a new house roughly every seven minutes. Is anybody really up for that? Is there any politician whose plan for this country really is to tarmac over all remaining green parts of the country so as to become the biggest possible hotel for the world’s economic migrants? If not, would a little bit of political leadership really hurt so much?

For years Ukip has been damned by its political opponents as racist, xenophobic, homophobic, misogynistic, backward, knuckle-dragging, rag-tag and ramshackle. But they turn out to be deadly and effective: for the Conservative party most of all. Having scorned them and their complaints for so long, it is hard to see how Cameron can now change course and mend this part of his own flank without in consequence looking ridiculous. Caught in this bind, even some Conservative party loyalists are now wondering whether David Cameron might not go down in electoral history as the man who divided the right and then did so badly that in 2010 that he had to form a coalition with the Lib Dems (RIP) before going on to lose the 2015 general election to Ed Miliband.

Throughout Cameron’s leadership, the Conservative party appears to have been losing patience with the people who used to vote for it. Whether at the by-election in Newark next week (where Ukip last week topped the polls) or in next year’s general election, at some stage, and with brutal finality, it looks like the people are going to return the favour.

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  • Epimenides

    I qualify as a former Conservative member and activist that has deserted. I donated several thousand £s when Norman Tebbit was chairman and helped campaign to get Mrs May into the HoC in 1992 after Michael Trend’s resignation.
    I loathe Cameron and now send my contributions to the UKIP. As for Tory MPs allowing Cameron to enter into a coalition with Clegg defies belief. Cameron never even consulted them and they were supine and rolled over.
    As Mrs Thatcher said, “You do not negotiate with your political enemies. You destroy them.” I hope Mr Farage succeeds in this task next year.

    • Brimstone52

      You might not be aware that Cameron wanted a coalition long before the general election.

      This is from the Guardian in September, 2009.


      “There’s barely a cigarette paper between [the Tories and the Lib-Dems]…”

      • Denis_Cooper

        Thanks for that, and I note that his courting of the LibDems started well before he announced his abject surrender on the Lisbon Treaty on November 4th 2009, in fact a couple of weeks before the Irish voted in their second referendum on October 2nd 2009 with the opinion polls showing that they would vote “yes”. So he was already angling to find an alternative source of support to replace that which he knew he would lose when he did what he had always intended to do, cave in and swallow the treaty whole as a fait accompli.

      • MartinWW

        I add my thanks to Brimstone52 for altering us to this article by David
        Cameron. I found his sentiments shocking, only adding to my contempt for
        him and his liberal-left faux conservatism. Surely his words prove
        that it had always been his intention to link with the LibDems, including
        his determination to give them a voice in those infamous debates that ensured
        that the Conservatives would not achieve a majority in the 2010 election.
        It has been mooted previously that ‘Dave’ did not want a majority for fear he
        would in thrall to the ‘right-wing’, and I am sure this was so. As for
        me, I have been a Conservative supporter and voted thus in all general
        elections since 1964. However, unless Cameron is removed, my vote
        will be for UKIP in 2015. I’ve had enough: the tipping point has been

        • global city

          You would be wasting your vote if you just want Cameron removed. There is a caucus of ‘modernisers’ at the head of the Tory party and the elite who actually run the party see the post war settlement as their natural territory.

          best commit to UKIP now for good.

          • James Lovelace

            “There is a caucus of ‘modernisers’ at the head of the Tory party”

            5 years ago I discussed the terrible threat from islam with a friend who’s a Tory party member, and who hob-nobs with MPs at dinner tables.

            He told me “watch how things change when the Tories are in government”. I keep reminding him of how this has not happened. He just looks down at this knife and fork.

        • Lady Magdalene

          There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that a coalition was planned for long before the 2010 General Election campaign kicked off.
          I believe the campaign was manipulated to ensure that one came about.

          • James Lovelace

            LibLabCon are one party. The BNP were their (state-controlled) puppet and foil.

            UKIP has gone from being a protest movement to being the only alternative party to LibLabCon.

        • victor67

          But Thatcher/Tebbit brand of Conservatism was highly toxic to about 75% of the electorate. Even UKIP who represent a strain of it will never poll over 20% Nationally in a UK election.

          • James Lovelace

            “But Thatcher/Tebbit brand of Conservatism was highly toxic to about 75% of the electorate. Even UKIP who represent a strain of it will never poll over 20% Nationally in a UK election.”

            When Thatcher was selected to be Tory leader, James Callaghan PM said “the Tories have handed us the next election”. So much for predictions.

            When the 2008 crisis appeared, polls showed that by a long margin, the only ex-PM of Britain whom people thought could fix the problem was Thatcher.

        • Gregory Mason


    • rtj1211

      i hope China applies your paradigm to your kind – it would teach you that a country the size of Britain will be wiped out if it is pugilistic in the big bad world.

      You are completely wrapped up in the absurd past of the Sun never setting on the British Empire, deluded in believing that Britain can do what she wants using thuggery.

      Well, she can’t.

      She needs to negotiate hard with sovereign nations whose interests differ sometimes from our own.

      Your world is only about killing foreigners as the Americans’ bum boys.

      That world is dead in the water as we don’t have £30bn to spare replicating Iran and Afghanistan in the 2020s.


      • Epimenides

        Yawn, incoherent garbage.

        • Cyril Sneer

          “However, remarkably forthright of you to sign yourself off as ‘idiot’.”

          Yes, I thought that was particularly honest of him.

      • Pootles

        Not sure what you are trying to argue here, but one of the attractions of UKIP is that it opposes the sort of pointless, uncalled for, failed wars that the established parties have foisted on the UK (and, worse, on Iraq and Afghanistan) in the last decade and a half. Further, Ukraine and the bellicose views of that arch-Eurostatephile, Tony Blair, show that the Euro elite are bent on using the EU as an expansionist weapon for the globalists. I think you need to re-think your understanding of the foreign policy approach of UKIP and the 21st Century adventurism and war-mongering of LibLabCon.

      • Colonel Mustard

        The Sun didn’t set. It was set. Mainly by plonkers much like you.

        I can tell you that were Pax Britannica still to exist the world would be a better, fairer, safer place. And there’s an end on it.

        • wimsb

          It was set when the Libs gave away universal suffrage to people too stupid to know how to vote, and whose votes were thus “for sale”.

          • James Lovelace

            J.S.Mill, the liberal par excellence, wanted the labourers to only have 1 vote for every 5 votes which a graduate would have.

            By 1911, the anarchist Roberto Michels was pointing out that democracy just led to a self-serving olgarchy taking over (socialist) political parties. Michels decided that it was better to become a fascist with integrity, rather than a self-deluded/hypocritical democrat.

        • Kaine

          As Salisbury, hardly an apologist, pointed out in 1902, from the end of their civil war the triumph of the continent-spanning USA was pretty much inevitable. Moreover, without Imperial Preference, we couldn’t give the colonies what they wanted. Britain was simply not prepared to form the sort of autarchic trade block that Imperial Germany and the USA were. Nor were we prepared to give Indian and African nations equal standing,neither in terms of dominion status, or in the mooted creation of an Imperial Parliament.

          As Orwell laid out in the forties, the only possible way of sustaining the structure would have been for the Indians to buy into it as equals. Now some in India had done very well out of the deal, particularly the Brahmin, Vaishya and Kyshatriya castes. Some had done badly, mostly the peasants and small craftsmen who had been made destitute by a globalisation process they were powerless to affect. Nevertheless I think the divisions were too deep by then.

          Interestingly had the original policy of the East India Company been maintained, one of profound and personal integration (officials got a payment for every mixed race child they had) we might now be citizens of a world-spanning, multi-religious, latte-coloured empire.

          • Colonel Mustard

            I don’t disagree. The USA operated as a strange paradox busily undermining everyone else’s empires whilst constructing their own, slightly cloaked version. They seeded much of the strife they later got involved in trying to resolve and presided over some spectacular own goals.

            The easy character of Regency India didn’t survive the Mutiny or Victoria but it would be wrong to think that any form of nationalism preceded that or that the nationalism that followed was entirely home grown.

            But my original premise was not on the basis of what was possible but what would have been better for the world, by and large.

      • James Lovelace

        “it would teach you that a country the size of Britain will be wiped out if it is pugilistic in the big bad world.”

        Because tiny Singapore, with no natural resources and with a hostile muslim majority country as a neighbour, is doing so badly.

        Yeah, right.

      • Gregory Mason

        We’ll be fine, we have nukes.

    • Robusticus

      May didn’t take over from Trend. Trend was succeeded in Windsor by Adam Afriyie in 2005. Is your memory failing, or has a bogus attempt to paint yourself as a seasoned Tory campaigner merely floundered?

      • Mynydd

        The big question is; after Mr Cameron’s abysmal performance in the local election and European elections where he lost; councils, councillors and MEPs, will Mr Adam Afriyie be one of the men in grey suit sent to tell Mr Cameron, it’s time to go.

        • Aberrant_Apostrophe

          I was going to correct you by saying ‘grey men in suits’, but then I realised Adam’s ethnic origins.

      • Epimenides

        The constituency was M’hd & Windsor. It split and Trend opted for Windsor. Mrs May is MP for M’hd.

    • dalai guevara

      Some will argue that precisely that occured with the LibDems.
      Now UKIP are about to take their place. Whether that will ever suffice to gather enough momentum and lead to yet another coalition remains to be seen. I would argue you are in very shallow waters indeed.

  • Paul

    As an ex-member of the Tory party, I can’t envisage ever returning to the Conservatives. Not only that, I am now so concerned by the failure of the Westminster parties to act on the concerns of the British people about immigration that I actively campaign for UKIP.

    After delivering UKIP leaflets to all homes in the small town where I live, plus campaigning on the local High Street, membership of the party here has increased by 500% in less than a year. Time and time again, people are saying that they’re delighted that they now have a political party to vote for that says it as it is, and it’s clear that we’ve struck a chord with a large minority of the electorate.

    • Kitty MLB

      Are they joining UKIP or is it about the honeyed words
      of the charasmatic NIgel Farage.
      So its all about immigration and not policies, do you
      disapprove of the excellent Micheal Gove.And are
      UKIP policies so different then Conservative policies,
      not coalition policies. Which we would have with a majority,
      but with a legitimate party and experienced and respected
      politicians. UKIP are also really interested in the working
      class Labour vote, by the way.

      • redrum

        Sorry Kitty, but Michael Gove is an idiot. I have been actively involved in a Free School saga in Stoke Poges. Right now that school is costing you and me £90k per pupil – that’s 15 times more than the investment made in a public school place, let alone other state schools. I predict that Gove’s legacy is going to be a whole raft of schools with financial discrepancies and educational mediocrity as their watchwords. You really need to lift up the bonnet and see what’s underneath – it isn’t pretty, and it isn’t working

        • lightinfantryman

          I do not understand why “the excellent Michael Gove” is so adamantly opposed to bringing back the Grammar Schools – a particularly attractive point of UKIP’s programme.

          It was the grammar schools that enabled people as diverse as Harold Wilson, Margaret Thatcher, Dylan Thomas (whose 100th Anniversary it is this year), Wynford Vaughan Thomas, and Daniel Jones (the composer), for example, to become the public figures that they did. And to that list one could even add the odious Edward Heath (not the excellent band leader).

          • James Lovelace

            I spent 5 years in a “secondary modern”, before transferring to a 6th form in a grammar school. At 14, to pass my O’ levels, I had to buy my own books and teach myself (the Head of the secondary modern had classified me as a dunce at the age of 13).

            I could not have imagined what life was like in a grammar school. I was surrounded by people who loved learning. Those were the happiest 2 years of my life.

            This dunce went on to get 2 post-graduate degrees.

          • tjamesjones

            I like the idea of grammar schools, and agree they acted to help a lot of talented people & create a lot of social mobility in the decades you mention. But they are not an unfettered good, the problem is that we never came up with a satisfactory schooling system for the ‘rump’ who are not good enough for the grammar schools. In particular people who just miss out on a place will resent it for their whole lives. Despite this I would prefer that we did find a way to reinstate grammar schools, but I’m just offering some thoughts on what makes real politics and real change difficult. It’s certainly harder than clicking on the up button for a “I hate liblabcon and I’m not a waycist” post.

        • Daidragon

          This. Gove and his free school obsession are a disgrace. So much public money is being squandered on this ideological experiment there will be some serious repercussions in the future.

          • vieuxceps2

            “Ideological experiment”-? Thought that was comprehensive schooling.

      • Streben80

        Having a good leader helps but my sense is that people joining UKIP and those switching to support us longer term feel a sense of relief that they can openly express how they feel. UKIP is more than other parties an emotional choice, that is why many of our online supporters speak with such conviction – they dont just agree, they believe.
        The Tories cant speak to the working classes, they dont know how and they have a terminal brand problem in the North that makes a majority a pipe dream. UKIP grassroots are stuffed full of working class people and they sit easily alongside ex-Tories – it turns out that once you remove the tribalism, everyone wants much the same thing, not something the old parties have ever understood.

        • James Lovelace

          A few days ago I had a social encounter with 3 people who I knew from a
          community action group, but whose politics I’d never known before. One
          was previously a loyal Green, one a loyal LibDem, the other a loyal
          Labour voter. All 3 voted UKIP in the recent elections. They all
          thought UKIP was the future for the crisis facing this country. All
          clearly intend to continue voting UKIP. At least 2 of them could have
          been potential UKIP MPs. One of them was an immigrant.

          In the hours of discussion we had about Britain’s future,
          whilst UKIP was the topic to which we kept returning, the issue of the
          EU never once appeared in our conversation.

          The other people I know who voted UKIP include:
          – a gay lawyer (son of immigrants)
          – an immigrant ex-Labour councillor
          – an ex-member of the SWP (a teacher)
          – a straight Tory activist in the 70s, became a LibDem voter in the 90s (because the Tories were anti-gay)
          – a chinese immigrant who works in the kitchen of a restaurant, doing a 60 hour week on minimum wage

          The LibLabCon cartel and their presstitutes have spent 30 to 50 years lying to the people of Britain. They have used political correctness to destroy free speech and public debate.

          This is why LibLabCon cannot understand what is going on with the UKIP phenomenon. They have made it so we, the Demos, must conduct our views on politics in hushed tones amongst those we trust.

          The BNP was no doubt a creature created by the LibLabCon elite, and managed by MI5. It existed solely to make sure that anyone who committed the heresy of disagreeing with the one-party state must be associated with racist national socialists.

      • Rallan

        Kitty, UKIP supporters simply do not want what the Conservative / Labour parties are offering.

        • global city

          That’s the point. The lack of awareness of this is particularly breath taking amongst the Tory set.

          • Mike

            One expects Labour to be so entrenched in their social engineering experiments to the exclusion of common sense and we expect the Libdumbs to live up to their name, but in the case of the Tories, their excuse has to be outright arrogance and they deserved the kicking they got last week but they still don’t get it.

      • barrydavies

        I never expected to see anyone use the word excellent in the same sentence as Michael Gove. UKIP policies are not conservative policies for a start off the demonisation of the poor the needy the disabled and incapacitated policy of the tories with the help of the lib dums and labour is far from what UKIP want. Michael Gove is almost as much a fascist as IDS.

        • tjamesjones

          I think you’ll find barrydavies that there are kippers who love Michael Gove and kippers who like yourself who hate him. Good fun will be had by all when Ukip actually try to write down their policies, the same problem the LibDems had last time around.

          • barrydavies

            Well as the ukip membership has come from all three of the old parties there will be debate about what is the best way to go that is for sure, but it won’t be what the idiots who claim what ukip stands for who will be proven correct.

          • tjamesjones

            I’ll assume you’re not calling me an idiot, though I don’t see who your target is.
            A couple of lines below this there’s another kipper, James Lovelace, saying “I like Gove. I think he is one of the few MPs with any admirable qualities…”

            You’d have to be pretty blithe to be confident that resolving differences as big as this is just a matter of ‘debate’. Schooling is pretty important, particularly for parents, and for UKIP to take a coherent position it will alienate some section of its supporters. I think kippers at that point will rediscover that liblabcon are not in fact one indistinct mass.

          • barrydavies

            Well the idiots are the people who harp on about the manifesto that never was in 2010, the thing about ukip is that we allow people to have their own opinion personally I think Gove is a disaster, I have no doubt that there are people with differences in every party, that’s a basic human condition thankfully. Every party alienates a section of its supporters.

      • Raddiy


        We have been blogging friends for a long time, but at times I wonder what you are defending, or probably more importantly why you are defending it.

        This is not a game to us, this is not about individuals who might be more conservative than others, this transcends all the petty issues about whether free schools are better than academies, or what the price of a pint of milk is.

        Last week after years of people being intimidated with accusations of being racist if they contemplated supporting UKIP, the dirty tricks and smear campaingn co-ordinated by the anti-democratic Conservative party you support, finally got its comeuppance and was given two fingers. I have been talking to loads of people since last week and all of them are immensely proud that by voting UKIP they have actually had an effect on politics.

        You talk about keeping Labour out, but have you read the report today that apparently in Thurrock where UKIP took 5 seats off Labour and the Conservatives,they are talking about an unholy alliance of governing between them, to ensure that the change that the public of Thurrock wanted is defied, and to ensure that UKIP are kept out of local governance.


        That’s your party Kitty, two faced, duplicitious and about as conservative as Labour.

        • global city

          The flaperati also do not understand that the crushing effect of political correctness has been felt and witnessed by vast swathes of the population now and so have cottoned onto it’s MO and rationale. The tactics are well worn and have been seen to hit so many innocent people.

          The MSM are like those liberal sort in safe America calling for the law to go easy on drug dealers, as the crack epidemic was destroying community after community.

          Most people can see the demonisation attempts against UKIP for what they are.

          Some stupid people, usually ones with ‘progressive’ instincts do not.

          • Winston Smith

            Children are systematically led to the correct ‘answer’ of having progressive views in education, inc primary secondary and tertiary. It usually takes a few years of life experience before they cotton on. The fact that the establishment has so much trouble even handling this major issue is telling, and the people are rejecting the group think. People are waking up – and those in power need to take notice (not just parrot we are listening to your concerns) or it will just grow stronger and fester.

          • BobH2003

            I saw a youth sex education pamphlet from West Sussex CC. It is the filthiest and most perverted pamphlet I have ever seen. These people are supposedly shaping our children’s future, and all they do it pervert them. Sick progressive politics!

          • Kaine

            You must be a rather sheltered soul.

          • Aberrant_Apostrophe

            No wonder LibLabCon are looking to lower the voting age. Probably got the idea from that Salmond chap.

          • James Lovelace

            The group of mature, educated, cosmopolitan UKIP virgin-voters I met this week had a much stronger opinion. They thought that there was a chain-reaction going on in politics in Britain. They expect within the next 2 General Elections that UKIP will not just wipe out LibDems, but the Tories too.

            I think they are naively optimistic.

          • James Lovelace

            LibLabCon used political correctness as the National Socialists and Stalinists used fear to silence the people.

            Now LibLabCon are left fighting in a miasma of unspoken issues. They are clueless to understand what is going on.

            Moreover, it’s not the EU that is the central issue. Furthermore, they have no idea why the Demos are supporting UKIP (just 4 years ago at a hustings I attended it looked like UKIP were a laughing stock).

            So, what has happened in those 4 years?
            – Lee Rigby was murdered following an islamic ritual.
            – 80 muslim men have been convicted for grooming/raping/prostituting schoolgirls.
            – Iraq and Afghanistan have been seen to be utter failures, producing unneeded deaths of UK soldiers, meanwhile islamic terrorism has risen rather than falling
            – media reporting on FGM went up 1000% between 2012 and 2013 (it was virtually non-existent during the previous 20 years)
            – the EDL leader was hounded by the state until they found a way to put him behind bars.

            If you think none of this is relevant, consider this: until 6 months ago, the EDL had more fans on Facebook than the largest political party in the UK. Now, Britain First (a clone of EDL) has got twice as many fans on Facebook as the most popular political party in the UK.

        • Lady Magdalene

          I believe Cameron would far rather see a Labour Government than do anything which might lead to the UK leaving the EU.
          We call them the LibLabCON because they are basically one party – serving the interests of The British Establishment and the EU, not the people.

        • Chris Quin

          Before the election it was ‘talk to the hand Cameron”

          Now its ‘talk to the finger”!

      • global city

        you assume that the working class labour vote are socialists?

        • Kitty MLB

          Certainly not. But Labour insultingly think so.

          • global city

            That is why UKIP will hoover potentially millions of them up, as so many people now understand that the London Labour party deserted them decades ago and have only exploited their dumb loyalty in order to create policies based on hate, shove their ideologies down their throats by experimenting on their communities and maintaining the poverty and lack of opportunity in order to keep the votes coming in.

            UKIP have clicked that most Labour supporters are aspirational, non-ideological and fair minded.

      • Full Name

        Tories have had 5 governments to “so-called” reform EU, in fact Tories are the MOST PRO-EU party by track-record of loss of sovereignty to the EU.

        They have also failed spectacularly to develop a fully fledged OUT MOVEMENT in 40 years.

        Tells you something about the Tories doen’t it; not to mention their terminally-declining membership they can only begin to wonder at the causes for.

      • Lady Magdalene

        Our main policy – our raison d’etre – is as different from the Conservatives as it could possibly be.
        The Conservative Party wants the UK kept inside a European Union which is anti-democracy; protectionist and which has an appalling track record of incompetence, fraud and corruption. The Party wants our Sovereignty transferred to the EU and laws – incompatible with the British legal system – to have precedence over ours.
        UKIP wants a Sovereign, independent and self-governing Britain; free to trade with any country which wishes to trade with us, on terms which suit us both.
        There is no comparison.

      • Major Plonquer

        I think the whole point about Nigel Farage is that he is NOT charismatic and doesn’t even try to be. The fact that people believe he means what he says has nothing to do with charisma and more to do with plain old honesty. Therein lies the problem with Cameron, Miliband and Clegg who think that if they’re seen as charismatic we’ll ignore their blatant lack of honesty.

        • James Lovelace

          I think you are wrong. I think Farage is charismatic. But it’s the kind of charisma that has developed from 20 years in the political wilderness.

          What makes him unlike the other politicians, is that he’s not been manufactured by a PR agency. He’s not been trained and groomed to spin, spin, spin.

          If you put Farage against the politicians from the 1950s and 1960s, he would not look charismatic. Put him against the 2-dimensional liars and hypocrites and fraudsters who have been elected in the past 20 years, and Farage is charismatic.

      • Nigel Carter

        Cameron, Clegg and Miliband…? Hardly respected…hence vote
        drought! You forget to mention the Elephant IN everywhere…well, in 75% of
        everything, everywhere…that foreign power pulling the strings of your puppet
        Westminster ‘democracy’…working for its Big Corporate masters and their ugly
        creature the EU. That EU fifth column is in Number 10, in coalition and in
        opposition…whenever they have a rare choice between serving the people or
        their beloved EU bosses…we the people have to put up with whatever the EU
        forces upon us. No influence. Powerless. …Paying!


        No, planned peasantry.

        Westminster and its beloved EU planned our hapless future,
        and we’re living it now…endless, hopeless, pressed servitude with less and
        less…but paying, and obeying, more.

        See the entitled eu-fed ‘elite’ fly high as kites above
        their castle keep, calmly content…eu eagle-eye on us below.

        Meanwhile we, their New Peasantry, cry in the quicksand of
        their debt, up to the neck, in their bureaucratic bog, beneath…

        “Help! Can you hear? Free us! Free us, please! There’s
        been a mistake, we’re meant to be free! We’re born-free, that’s how we’re meant
        to be!”

        ‘Shh!’ a reply floats down from the winds above, ‘You’ll
        disturb our masterful reveries…we don’t care about you, as you can see…just
        shut up and put up with what we do to you! Shh! Do not disturb us!’

        Disturb them! Vote UKIP!

        That’ll wake ’em up!

        We, the People, can have what we want…people like us, who
        like us…and care for us…it’s not too much to ask, this is our country too.

        This lot are not listening…let’s turf them all out! And put
        our friends in! :-)


      • SimonToo

        David Cameron was and is a duffer as leader of the Conservative Party. Despite that being blindingly obvious, the Conservative Party has failed to replace him, which suggests strongly that the Conservative Party is just as much of a duffer.

        Michael Gove did seem very promising, but then he proved himself a traditional troughing MP by scrounging off the taxpayer for his child’s education. As a minister, and one with a successful working wife, one would have expected him to do the decent thing and pay for independent schooling, thus leaving a place at a decent state school for the deserving child of poor parents.

        What on earth suggests to you that the modern Conservative Party would come up with significantly different policies, let alone carry them into effect, whether or not David Cameron remains leader? A Great Repeal Bill, perhaps, voter recall of MPs, rolling back the erosion of the liberties of the subject that have been effected allegedly in the name of anti-terrorism, or yet more policies which were in the last manifesto, were covered in the coalition agreement and have quietly disappeared?

      • Jen The Blue

        As precisely one of those voters – ex Tory member now supporting UKIP, I think this article hits the nail on the head.

        Do I disapprove of Michael Gove? Well he has done some good things. But, like the rest of this sorry government, he hasn’t gone nearly far enough. We are still cramming universities with second rate students doing third rate courses at the expense of true academics. We still have a largely non-selective education system that is failing miserably

        Certainly for me it isn’t “all about immigration” – important though that is. It is about who governs Britain. It barely matters who wins thenext election between LibLabCon because firstly whoever wins the EU governs us andmakes our laws. Secondly, there is nothing but nuances between them anyway.

        Whichever gives us the next PM it will be a politically correct, tax and spend, government control, nanny state, degrees for all, clone.

        Could I ever vote Tory again? Possibly……if they changed radically and elected someone like David Davis as leader.

      • Michele Keighley

        You call the Conservatives a ‘Legitimate Party’ – so, are you saying that UKIP has no legal status, because that’s what being ‘legitimate’ means. Perhaps you are trying to convey that the Conservatives have a more ‘moral’ or ‘ethical’ right to govern which you deny for UKIP?

        Either way, you are sounding a trifle desperate Kitty MLB, … the word ‘experienced’ I will grant, but it not necessarily the sort of experience that I would expect from a ‘legitimate’ party – and in the light of your recent showing at the polls I fear that there is little respect for your party.

        You cannot solve the problems besetting the Tories by putting your fingers in your ears and singing ‘La la la! I’m not listening to you’ the electorate is the true judge of your performance and it appears they are not impressed – you must change, trying to change the electorate does not work; as the Labour Party has just found out.

      • James Lovelace

        “do you disapprove of the excellent Micheal Gove.”

        I like Gove. I think he is one of the few MPs with any admirable qualities. He’s polite in debate for one. That’s exceptionally rare among the stooges in these sinecures.

        However, in 2006 Gove wrote a book called “Celsius 7/7″. It explained the severity of the problem Britain faces from islam. Yet from that moment on, neither he nor any other politician in Parliament has mentioned the contents of Gove’s book.

        We’ve got over 332 muslims in the UK convicted of islam-related terrorism. Only about 3 non-muslims can be concluded to have been convicted of islam-related terrorism. So muslims who are 1/20th of the UK have 100x more terrorists than those of us who are 19/20ths of the UK. That shows how bad the problem is.

        And Gove and Cameron are instead wasting years passing laws about same-sex marriage.

    • Secular_Investor

      This is a great, great article, the best analysis I have read yet from the Conservative perspective. I just hope the Barclay brothers read it, inwardly digest the implications and allow the Editor of the Telegraph to stop smearing UKIP and instead to start similar serious discussions.

      However, UKIP is having an equally seismic effect on Labour, whose metro elite hierarchy has ignored their own core working class voters, with whom UKIP’s message also really resonates. It is these traditional Labour voters in their industrial heartlands of the North and Midlands who are the most badly affected by mass immigration. Its is lower income, young and less skilled people from every ethnic background who are most badly affected by overcrowding the UK, resulting job competition, wage compression, housing shortages, crowded schools, overburdened NHS, overstretched infrastructure and high energy prices caused by Miliband’s green taxes.

      As well as crushing Europhile LibDems, UKIP appeals strongly to the core voters of both Labour and Tories. Voters across the spectrum increasingly get the message and connect the dots: the only way to control immigration and regain our sovereignty and control of our lives and destiny is to vote UKIP.

      EVERY LibLabCon MP in every marginal seat has every reason to be afraid – very,very afraid.

      • Kaine

        Marginal MPs are always afraid, but if what you say is true it, in an odd way, make’s UKIP’s job harder, because you get the same problem the SDP had. You might well reduce the vote of Lab and Tories, and cause one or the other to win where they otherwise might not have, but whether that translates into seats is a different matter entirely.

        Indeed, since Lib Dem voters are the most resistant to UKIP’s message, UKIP may well ensure the return of Lib Dems in many Tory/Lib marginals.

        Lastly, a quick look at the council results in Labour heartlands seems to show less that current Lab voters are switching, but that the opposition to Labour, which often didn’t turn out because they considered it pointless, has to some extent been mobilised, while the Tory and Lib vote has collapsed. This is obviously enough to put UKIP in second place in many areas, but as the Libs can attest, it’s a long march from second to first.

        • Ade Ombasi

          That’s why we need a proportionally representative voting system and not this first-past-the-post circus we have now. Reduce the number of Commons MPs to 500, scrap constituencies and allocate seats to parties based on the proportion of the national vote they get at General Elections. Until this happens, there is absolutely no point of someone like me in somewhere like Croydon North going out and voting UKIP, because all the sheep round here vote Liebour in their masses. Would rather just not bother to vote than give this unfair vote my credibility by taking part.

          • Tudor Dimitriu

            That doesn’t work. Take it from someone who’s seen proportional voting at work for years. Proportional representation means that the bureaucratic centers of the parties get absolute control over their MPs, since the fight is no longer about winning your consituency (i.e. answering to voters) but about getting an elligible place on a party list. Even if you do miserably, and the party only gets 20% of the national vote, if you were in the first 10 spots on the party list, you’re in. Not to mention this would completely change the meaning of representation. Right now, MPs represent their constituencies. Who are they supposed to represent with proportional list voting? The country as a whole? Too remote, to disconnected, too abstract. Long control loops in political systems breed corruption.

          • Ken_Johns

            I totally agree Tudor, but things they are a changing! Here in Austria the collaborative Socialist and Conservative coalition are in deep trouble again through downright lying to the electorate about the country’s true economic deficit until after the recent general election. The even more recent EU vote reflected the renewed interest in the far-right who took a sizeable chunk of the votes. This chunk is going to cause even bigger problems for the seriously challenged Prime Minister (a former Taxi Driver) who regards socialism and the EU as his main aim in life, disregarding any other opinions. The far right FPÖ will cause havoc in Europe and no bullying by the left wing EU Marxists will have any effect next time around.

          • Tudor Dimitriu

            I honestly thing we’re all misidentifying the real issue here. It’s not the EU that’s pushing marxism down people’s throats. It’s the plebs who’ve gone completely off balance in most of Europe. If mainstream conservative parties dominated individual countries’ politics on truly conservative platforms, the EU wouldn’t be looking the way it does now. This fight has to be won at home. There’s nothing wrong in having a huge block to further common interests and balance out the weight of Russia and the US. It’s the way we’re building it, as well as the imbalance in the internal societies of populous member countries which is creating the real problem. Just think of Italy and France. They’ve been socialist for more time than I can remember. And somehow, I just don’t think the main job of the EU should be masking the inefficiency of French agriculture.

          • Ken_Johns

            Again you are correct Tudor, but perhaps I was wrong in comparing the Tory/Liberal coalition in the UK with the Socialist/Conservative coalition in Austria. Except for a few hic coughs during the last 20 years, Austria has bounced around the same coalition make-up. It makes bad government and in an EU wide socialist/conservative tie-up it is impossible to make any movement to a decent trading bloc or any sensible representation of the peoples. On one hand the Germans are really doing what they want (as usual!) and they’re quite happy to let the rest of us bumble along grousing, but achieving nothing! There are several reasons why this situation has developed, the main one being the admittance of former East European states which are still socialist and will back any group that keeps the cash flowing in, as long as they don’t have to pay it back. The EU needs independent managers controlling it and a whole different organisation to make sure that fiscal responsibility is under a much tighter control. The current cabal of Barroso, Junckers, Rompuy, Schulz, Baroness whatshername and all the hangers on, need to be completely cleared out and we certainly have no need for the “immunity” clauses which prevent any of them being held to account after they have left the job!

          • Tudor Dimitriu

            I’m not sure the socialism of the Eastern Block, which is steeped in patriarchal values, is really any more perverted than the Western brand of socialism which is pushing for PC, multiculturalism and social engineering as well as the fallacy of “personal truth”. I’m telling you, the first step towards reforming the EU is recovering control of our national governments, both in Eastern and Western Europe, and that requires getting our fellow citizens to understand that the welfare states they’ve grown accustomed to are no longer economically sustainable. I’m Romanian, by the way, and over here we don’t really love what the EU has become any more than you do. But we feel that we have a choice between this Devil and the Russian Devil. And some of us are really appalled by the perversions of logic and the propaganda techniques that your socialists have taught our socialists. They put the old Communist Party to shame, really. The bit about keeping money flowing is true, I won’t deny it, but if we don’t find some way to collectively fix the system, we’re toast, because in this day and age, the UK, Germany and France are the only EU countries big enough and powerful enough to go it alone politically.

          • Gregory Mason

            I’d rather have the Eastern Block socialism that’s ‘steep in patriarchal values’ than the state imposed multiculturalism we have here. They can change their course, we cannot.

          • Gregory Mason

            Changing the voting system seems sensible, removing constituencies does not. The would only increase the distance between voters and the voted for.

    • Secular_Investor

      This is a great, great article, the best analysis I have read yet from the Conservative perspective. I just hope the Barclay brothers read it, inwardly digest the implications and allow the Editor of the Telegraph to stop smearing UKIP and instead to start similar serious discussions.

      However, UKIP is having an equally seismic effect on Labour, whose metro elite hierarchy has ignored their own core working class voters, with whom UKIP’s message also really resonates. It is these traditional Labour voters in their industrial heartlands of the North and Midlands who are the most badly affected by mass immigration. Its is lower income, young and less skilled people from every ethnic background who are most badly affected by overcrowding the UK, resulting job competition, wage compression, housing shortages, crowded schools, overburdened NHS, overstretched infrastructure and high energy prices caused by Miliband’s green taxes.

      As well as crushing Europhile LibDems, UKIP appeals strongly to the core voters of both Labour and Tories. Voters across the spectrum increasingly get the message and connect the dots: the only way to control immigration and regain our sovereignty and control of our lives and destiny is to vote UKIP.

      EVERY LibLabCon MP in every marginal seat has every reason to be afraid – very,very afraid.

  • Rallan

    UKIP is very, very fortunate in it’s enemies. The established parties know they’re alienating the electorate, but they just can’t help themselves and no-one thinks they’re sincere (because they’re not).

    I will vote UKIP at the general election.

    • redrum

      Me too – I don’t care who gets in. What matters now is that culturally I am living in a country that feels English. Personally I am sick to death of going into London and hearing every language under the sun spoken except my own; it does nothing for any sense of cohesion. I welcome all ethnicities to this country; all I ask them to do is to come here and fit in, not impose their way of being on us. It is often reported that UKIP supporters are those who have been “left behind”. I know Oxford dons, business people, top 1% taxpayers, teachers, doctors, all of whom are UKIP members. I personally think we’re at tipping point; welcome for 3 party politics (the Liberal Democrats are dead)

      • Mynydd

        I know how you feel, here in Wales I am sick to death hearing the English language spoken rather than our own.

        • Rallan

          Really? English is a foreign language for you, is it? Is it new to Wales? Do you feel excluded because you don’t speak it? You’ve never been taught it and you’re not fluent in it?

        • MartinWW

          Some people might argue that the welsh part of Wales does not really have a mandate to impose its values and language on all the country. After all, it was only the welsh-speaking part of the country (i.e. Caerarvon, Merioneth, Carmarthem, Cardigan, most of Glamorgan) that supported in 1997 the setting up of a Government of Wales (and only 25% of the population at that). I suggested at the time that counties who voted against (i.e. Denbigh, Flint, Mongomeryshire, Brecknock, Radnor, Pembroke, Monmouth and the Cardiff region) should have immediately seceded from Wales and joined England, thus leaving the rump Wales to the true Welsh. It is interesting that in the May 2014 elections, this divide was almost exactly match in the Plaid / UKIP split.

        • Flintshire Ian

          Outside of Anglesey, Gwynedd and Ceredigion and parts of Powys, far fewer than 10% of the population of Wales speak Welsh with any degree of fluency and even fewer can write in Welsh. So for most of us in Wales “our” language is English.

        • wimsb

          Not try to tell us you grew up speaking it and did not need to learn it at school.

        • CO Jones

          Then perhaps you should try to convince more Welsh people to learn how to speak it.

      • MrJones

        The “left behind” thing is reverse identity spin like the “golf club blazer” version before it. It’s designed to put people off.

        • ButcombeMan

          Indeed it is.

          It is a feeble attempt at manipulation as is the “racism” label.

          UKIP is appealing across a wider section of society than any other party and the established parties have no answer.

          In my local experience, several people worth many millions and several artisans. they all feel the same.

  • RBcritique

    Well said, as usual, Mr. Murray.

  • Camelhead the vain

    Most people now realise that David Cameron is talking out of his behind over the EU and UKIP, i would suggest that by looking at the rosy cheeks displayed above in the cartoon that there is some substance to what a lot of people are thinking.

    • Mynydd

      Not only EU and UKIP.

  • Blindsideflanker

    Cameron and his modernisers not only mistreated UKIPers, he also mistreated conservative minded voters, their loathing of everything conservative stretched from the Conservative voters to the Conservative MPs.

    Remember how the Cameroon’s crowed about making a permanent alliance with the Libdems , gleefully speculating that this would permanently marginalise the right, for they had no where to go. Well don’t they look like right chumps now?

    So Cameron not only has to find ways of mending fences with UKIPers, but a large chunk of the Conservative party as well.

  • Brimstone52

    In history, the cause of every armed revolution has been the failure of those in power to heed the reasonable and justifiable concerns of those over whom they have power.

    When “the peasants” revolted did TPTB sit back and think for a moment that they might have been wrong? No, the tried to suppress the citizens.

    In most cases, TPTB lost. Sometimes they lost more than just their positions. Sometimes they lost their lives.

    Sometimes it has been the protesters who sacrificed their lives, but such was the outcry that those in control had to make changes anyway and the protesters aims were achieved, at least in part.

    Why then does the UK government not listen to the people and make some changes to the UK’s relationship with the EU?

    The people of the UK are in favour of a good trading relationship. We object to political and legal control being given to a foreign power.

    • Shazza

      Reminds me of that famous quote of JFK’s –

      “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.”

      • Brimstone52

        JFK, as with so much, was bang on the nail.

        • rtj1211

          When he wasn’t banging the females, anyway…..

    • Blindsideflanker

      “In history, the cause of every armed revolution has been the failure of those in power to heed the reasonable and justifiable concerns”

      And that is the peril our political class have stupidly got themselves into. In locking away so much of our sovereignty in EU treaties they can no longer respond to the electorates wishes, which makes revolution a distinct possibility.

    • James Lovelace

      I saw a TV interview from the US, where Farage said that he thinks the EU project will end in war in Europe. When I saw that, I thought that Farage’s description of von Rumpoy etc. in the EUParl as “very, very dangerous people” clearly had far more significance than people have assumed.

  • misomiso

    There is one thing the Tories can do that will skewer UKIP completely – Opt out of Freedom of Movement.

    ifs no buts, none of this nonsense about benefit claiments etc, a full
    opt out of freedom of movement and take control back of our borders. All of our relationship with Europe should stem from this.

    If he does this (and let local areas open Grammar schools) then he’s got my vote.

    • Brimstone52

      We can’t opt out of the Freedom of Movement. It’s one of the foundations of the EU.

      If we want to take back control of our borders the UK has to leave the EU. There are no half measures. Barosso, Merkel at al have said there will be no reform or renegotiation.

      UKIP wants more than just to close the borders to free movement. It wants sovereignty returned to national parliaments. The EU is intent on taking yet more power from us.

      • misomiso

        Before the elections I would have said you were right, but if Cameron now gets up says ‘Countries should be able to opt out of Freedom of movement’ I think he would get it, not least because the electorates of France, Denmark, Netherlands, Sweden would want it too.

        It should form the base of the renegotiation, and the rest of our relationship should stem from this.

        • Denis_Cooper

          How could he get the necessary EU treaty changes when they would have to be agreed and ratified by ALL the EU member states including those whose populations benefit greatly from the right to live and work in the wealthier countries? What could he offer those governments to win their support for a proposal to remove or curtail that existing treaty right?

          • Brimstone52

            Exactly Denis. Not being unkind, but people such as misomiso, Cameron and others who call for reform are really not listening to nor understanding the other people in the EU.

          • misomiso

            You may be right, but if he stands up and calls for it, it will concentrate minds, as if they dont concede then it means that UK WILL be leaving, and the rich North Europeans dont want to see UK leave at all.

            But I agree Cameron probably wont do it. its not his political style; hes an insider by instinct and so will shy away from open confrontation.

            The problem is Brimstone52, is that I dont think the ‘outs’ can win a referendum. It would be a better political tactic to get the opt out of Freedom of Movement in any renegotiation. that way whichever way the country votes we get our borders back.

          • Denis_Cooper

            Cameron would never say that the UK was leaving the EU or campaign for “out” in an “in-out” referendum, and that is well understood by the other governments. Instead he would do what Wilson did: pretend to have got important concessions when in reality there were none, and officially recommend that we vote to stay in on those improved terms, “Britain’s New Deal in Europe”, as Wilson called it.

            And then there would be very little chance that the “out” side could win the referendum:


            “Europe: Cameron as wily as Wilson?”

            “Pro-Europeans should hope that Cameron is not so much heir to Blair but, rather, wily as Wilson.”

          • Dogzzz

            Exactly, Cameron is offering a bait and switch referendum con. Offer reform, then once we have voted for it, the EU itself will veto it. Leaving us then trapped in an unreformed EU on course to ever closer union.

          • Brimstone52

            The “outs” can win because the “ins” rely on the threat of loss of trade.

            The “ins” have yet to tell us why we have to be a member of a political union to trade with other countries, especially when there are some 170 other countries which are not members of the EU many of whom trade with it quite happily.

            In fact, despite asking many times I’ve not been able to get an intelligent answer from an “in” as to what the EU is for. They only go on about trade and we have been trading with the countries of Europe, and further afield for hundreds of years.

            The EU has no purpose. We, and other countries, are paying for a bureaucracy that does nothing except shuffle paper to no one’s advantage except their own.

        • Brimstone52

          Except that Cameron won’t. He’s scared of Merkel and the EU Bureaucrats. A few months ago…

          Dave and Angela at an EU meeting…

          Auntie Angela, we really need to tweak our position with the EU. At least a little bit, otherwise I’ll lose the next election.

          I’m sorry David, I understand. I really do. I’d like to help but if we do it for you, we’ll have to do it for everyone then we won’t have a dictatorship any more.

          A few days later…

          Auntie Angela, about our renegotiations…

          David, as I said before, I’d like to help but we can’t.

          A few weeks later

          Auntie Angela, I really am getting very worried about our renegotiations…

          Oi, pimmelkopf! Which part of “No” don’t you understand?

      • rtj1211

        I think you’ll find that the EU powerbrokers are shitting in their pants right how. France went Front Nationale. Greece stuck a torpedo up their backside. UKIP won the poll. The ship is by no means sunk, but for the first time in 20 years, they have a peasants’ revolt to contend with.

        • Denis_Cooper

          Nah, it’s nothing compared to the various occasions when the peasants have rejected treaties in referendums.

      • Blindsideflanker

        “We can’t opt out of the Freedom of Movement. It’s one of the foundations of the EU.”

        We probably can, it is just a matter of application. The rule of law has never been a strong thing with the EU. When needs must they have bent the rules to get their way. A bureaucrat will always tell you that their petty fogging rules must be obeyed, until they are confronted by an insistent and intransigent force, then with much harrumphing they find ways of accommodating them.

        Mrs T’s rebate wasn’t permitted in the ‘rules’ but a few thwacks with her handbag and they saw sense.

        • Dogzzz

          They will bend the rules IF it gets them closer to their goals of every closer union, enlargement and free movement of goods and people.

    • Bill_der_Berg

      Without freedom of movement, the EU would lose much of its attraction for donors to the Conservative Party. The thought even of curbs on immigration is causing the CBI to voice its displeasure.

  • Kitty MLB

    As I said before Conservatives are not going away also.
    If UKIP wishes to slay Labour and put the Left out of their
    misery, then they should go for it.
    This thread is a spot of mischief making.Milipede is the
    one with his fingers in the ears.As UKIP take the working
    class voters.
    And no leader is bigger then their party and regardless of leaders
    all Conservatives must put country before party and have
    a duty to stop Labour resuming power.
    If anyone says Cameron doesn’t do that, well leaders com and go. And we have been in coalition which was a mistake.

    • Shazza

      Spot on. If Cameron doesn’t have the cojones to do what is required and keep Labour from power, we will find someone to lead the Conservatives who has.
      If unfortunately, Milliband and his band of useless, spiteful Marxists ever get into No. 10 again, I fear it will be RIP GB.

      • Ricky Strong

        There is a little part of me that thinks a Labour government could be a good thing – with Miliband and Balls in charge we could possibly see a vote of no confidence after a couple of years, that should put them to grass for a good few terms.

        • Denis_Cooper

          There’s a part of me that thinks that in many ways a Labour government would not be a good thing but might not be much worse than a Tory government led by Cameron, but above all it is unlikely that Miliband would feel pressure to do a Wilson on us as Cameron is very clearly envisaging.

        • Shazza

          If they get in they will know that they have one shot to achieve their goals and not allow the Conservatives back into power; put their foot on the accelerator regarding third world/moslem/EU immigration. They will further gerrymander voting, restrict freedom of speech/press, take us into closer political union/Euro replacing the Pound with the EU asap.
          They are masters of manipulation, propaganda and smear.

          • Denis_Cooper

            Well if Miliband meant what he said “Euro replacing the Pound” would spell doom for the Tory party. Because while it would trigger a referendum that would not be a referendum just on whether or not to join the euro with EU membership continuing irrespective of which way that vote went, it would be a choice between staying in the EU and adopting the euro or leaving the EU altogether. And as the official Tory party position of staying in the EU but not joining the euro would not be an option on the ballot paper it would be in a fix, probably a terminal fix.

          • Shazza

            Labour has form when it comes to reneging on pledges. In their manifesto they pledged a referendum on the Lisbon Constitution aka Lisbon Treaty and that coward Brown sneaked in and signed it.
            Do you really, really believe they won’t pull off another trick like that?
            For the most part the British electorate are pretty apathetic and in all probability couldn’t be a***d to get up from watching East Enders/Big Brother to do anything about it.

          • Denis_Cooper

            I’m assuming that if they wanted to take us into the euro in the next Parliament, as you predict, then they might prefer to keep their referendum pledge as stated by Miliband because their chance of winning the referendum would be much higher than if it was a referendum just on whether to join the euro rather than being framed as an “in-out” referendum, and because it would inflict possibly terminal damage on the Tory party. But that doesn’t seem to have dawned on the Tories yet.

          • Dogzzz

            That would be an honest referendum then. Not the tory “bait and switch” stich up that Cameron is proposing.

            Have you read the Lisbon Reform Treaty?

          • Denis_Cooper

            Which treaty do you mean?

            The one drafted by the Spinelli Group?

    • rtj1211

      Almost all blogs now are taken over by paid trolls, spouting the same lines week in week out.

      I could write the blog entries to the DT columns nowadays. I don’t agree with a lot that’s written, but it’s the same tired stuff over and over again.

      You get the working class grammar school boy who escaped a hovel to better himself. He assumes that the only people on earth who matter are people like him. The fact that Britain’s economy tanked with the grammar school system once our cosseted Empire with its rigged trade collapsed might tell you that to build a successful economy needs more than the poems of Wordsworth. All right wingers are incapable of discussing education in a digital context (i.e. like having hundreds of TV channels rather than BBC 1 and BBC2): they just need ‘win/lose’ of the 11 plus. Thing is, if you ditch 80% of the population you get 80% being unproductive adults. It’s not good enough. There needs segmentation of education to provide approaches, niches and specialisms which upskill 80%+ of the school age population. You won’t do that with grammars and secondary mods. Simple.

      But you can’t discuss that because of the closed minds of the bloggers.

      That’s just one example.

      Every issue is the same. Either/or. Not integrated wholes.

      You can’t create a baby without embracing the differences between males and females.

      You can’t grow an economy saying that only the 11 plus kids add value to an economy.

      You can’t, and if UKIP/far right supporters say it another million times, the Permanent Secretary at the Treasury will still be struggling to raise revenues because the British Economy will still tank.

      It’ll tank because the only way to replace the 80% you consigned to the scrap heap is bringing in immigrants and we all know what right wing UKIPers think about that.

      Joined up thinking, joined up thinking.

      Start applying it, you genii on the right……….

      Don’t worry, I’m equally as scathing about those on the Left. Being dogmatists as well, they make exactly the same mistakes, just using different dogmatic positions as starting points.

      • S Arse

        Hmm.. Failed the 11 plus then rtj … ?

      • Andrew Tekle-Cadman

        “Almost all blogs now are taken over by paid trolls, spouting the same lines week in week out.”

        Really? UKIP must have some pretty impressive financing them, given how we dominate most right-wing blogs.

        More to the point many ‘Kippers’ are retired and have time, plus the fact we have zeal and enthusiasm for our cause unlike the demoralised supporters of the legacy parties.

      • Cyril Sneer

        I guess someone is always a paid troll when their views differ from yours.

        When their views align with yours, then of course they’re not paid trolls.

        UKIP success in the elections seems to mirror their popularity in online forums.

    • Streben80

      If the Tories want to rid themselves of Labour, they could stand aside in seats they will never win and let UKIP have a straight run at Labour.

      • Lady Magdalene

        Whatever makes you think the Tories want rid of Labour. They are two cheeks of the same ar$e.
        What they both want is to be rid of UKIP.

        • Streben80

          Thats why I said ‘if’. Judging by my local council the Tories and Labour are one in the same party, hard to tell them apart.

    • Shazza

      Breitbart London are reporting that Labour and the Conservatives are considering “an unholy alliance” to keep UKIP out of Thurrock. I don’t know what to make of this.

      • Kitty MLB

        Oh I shall read that latter. Shazza I have been wondering for a while if the two main parties
        would join forces over UKIP. It would be utterly
        wrong and I hope the Conservatives see sense,
        Labour are the ones who play games.Not our

      • Andrew Tekle-Cadman

        And people wonder why we talk about the ‘LibLabCon’? Might work in the short term – which is all the political class thinks about, but long term is just further damages both parties and demoralises their supporters.

        • Lady Magdalene

          I can’t think of anything more likely to make Essex Man vote UKIP in 2015, than a stitch up between Lab and CON in Thurrock.

    • Andrew Tekle-Cadman

      “Conservatives are not going away” – no, that is too much to ask for, but I think now the die is cast, and from now onwards your party will be regional home counties party for the relatively wealthy. Just look at the EU election results map


      It doesn’t matter what Cameron or any other leader does now – there have been too many betrayals, insults and humiliations thrown at average people for the aspirant classes to come back to you.

  • ButcombeMan

    I have had 55 years of supporting the Tories. I cannot imagine going back. Every time Heseltine opens his mouth and shows his contempt for voters and their opinions, it confirms my view the Tories are finished.

    Cameron has been careless with the Tories, pandered to a small group of Guardian readers (who will mostly never support him) , alienated his core vote by not listening and forgotten Mondeo man (who supported Thatcher in droves).

    This is wilful destruction.

    • rtj1211

      Mrs Thatcher was the beneficiary of huge North Sea Oil revenues.

      She could only do what she did due to an historical artefact.

      • Mynydd

        Mrs Thatcher used North Sea Oil revenues to pay the dole money. Of course this was on top of the £50m she paid for Burma Oil north sea assets which her husband was a director.

      • terence patrick hewett

        Thatcher did what she did because technology changed. the micro-processor did for the lot of them.

    • Aberrant_Apostrophe

      Heseltine is one of our ‘elder statesmen’. Unfortunately they eventually go gaga, some earlier than others. The problem is identifying exactly when the transition happens.

  • Ricky Strong

    What can Cameron do, or any of them for that matter? We are bound by Treaty to the EU project and until we rightfully claim back our sovereignty from the unelected bureaucrats over in Brussels and Strasbourg everything is just empty words.

  • Agrippina

    As David Boyle fellow of the New Economics Foundation think tank says, soaring houseprices will kill off the middle class in 30yrs time, there will be a tiny elite and a sprawling proletariat.

    Those of us that live with EU enrichment can see it for ourselves. dave works with friends from uni & lives next door to folks from uni.

    He has absolutely no idea of how the rest of us are living with mass immigration.

    He could start by vetoing membership for Albania, Bosnia, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia & Turkey, without unanimity nothing can happen. Then start neg over free movement of people & benefits.

    Germany won in the ECJ last week, those going there for benefits and not work, can be thrown out. Unemployed for 6mths out.

    Vote UKIP for reform.

    • Denis_Cooper

      Too late for Croatia.

      • Agrippina

        Yes they keep getting permission to come over here and do vital work in a carwash, just as the Romanians did prior to open door this Jan!

        That is why no-one believes the trio of troughers, stop the croatians by refusing permission to work here right now and delay full rights for the foreseeable future.

        • Denis_Cooper

          Cameron could have refused to agree to Croatia joining the EU, and as a refusal to sign the treaty of accession would have been a matter of the Prime Minister exercising the Royal Prerogative on behalf of the Queen it not have required any vote in the Commons and so the LibDems could certainly not have blocked that, the usual excuse. Or he could have agreed to sign the treaty of accession on conditions, one of which could have been that Croatia would not be placed under the standard legal obligation to join the euro. Instead he has agreed to Croatia to being put straight onto the conveyor belt into the euro, so eventually it will become another member of the eurozone bloc lined up against us. When he announced his surrender over the Lisbon Treaty he said that provisions to repatriate powers to the UK could be attached to the next accession treaty, but he made no attempt to do that. Moreover we got no direct say on this because Hague invoked fine print in his “referendum lock” law to prevent a referendum, and it would have been the same if it had been Turkey joining the EU rather than Croatia.

          • Agrippina

            So that when he said the ‘EU is too big and too bossy’ and needs to reform, no-one believes him.

            It is business as usual the centre right grouping in the EU are not interested in the recent election results.

            A few words for the lemmings who vote for PR boy dave and into dinner!

          • Denis_Cooper

            Seen this?


            “Cameron’s Conservatives Flirt With EU hard-right to Block UKIP’s EU Funding”

          • Agrippina

            Just read it, thanks. How appalling, I have never trusted Hannan (likes the EU salary&expenses) he is a useful bod to pretend they want reform.

            I didn’t realise unless you group up with 6 others you cannot get onto committees or receive funds! Divide and rule the tried and tested methodology still in use!

            I hope that Newark votes accordingly.

          • Denis_Cooper

            It wasn’t always the case that you had to have members from so many different countries. Back in 1999 the system was that for a grouping to get official recognition it needed:

            Minimum of 29 MEPs from one country, or

            Minimum of 23 MEPs from two countries, or

            Minimum of 18 MEPs from three countries, or

            Minimum of 14 MEPs from four or more countries.

            In fact in 1999 the Tories won 36 seats and so under that rule they could have formed an official “British Conservative” group on their own, but instead they chose to remain linked to the federalist EPP group.

            Since then the rule has been changed in steps, with the architect of the most recent change being Richard Corbett, who was a Labour MEP for Yorkshire & Humberside at the time, then lost his seat in 2009, then spent five years as an advisor to Herman Van Rompuy, and has just got back in as an MEP:


            Now a grouping needs a minimum of 25 MEPs from at least 25% of the EU member states = 7 at present, a rule deliberately designed to make life difficult for small groups, with the hope that the Tories may be forced back into the EPP and UKIP may be in no official grouping at all.

          • Pootles

            An interesting post – thank you. As usual, the devil is in the detail. Well, and in the bigger picture too in this case.

          • Lady Magdalene

            And as a first step towards EU-wide political parties.

          • Denis_Cooper

            That is the plan.

          • Dogzzz

            UKIP have more MEPs than any other party in the EU. That must give them a greater amount of influence on who goes into groupings than the tories.

  • Nigel Korwin-Mikke

    PARTY leaders are to meet with prejudiced nans after it emerged they were responsible for the UKIP landslide.

    The nans, who loathe foreigners and live to be about 400, now constitute about 89 per cent of the electorate.

  • tim g
  • http://www.ukipsupporter.blogspot.co.uk/ Bill Sticker

    Mr Cameron is off on yet another taxpayer funded junket to a top class dinner to beg his bosses not to elect his worst nightmare Herr Junckers as EU supremeo when the current appointee as opposed to elected boss Von Rompouy retires.

    Hes on another hiding to nothing though as Mrs Merkel has decided that to do as he is begging her to and appoint Davy’s chosen one would be (Dont Laugh) “UNDEMOCRATIC”

    Her mind will be elsewhere anyway as rather than merely patting Davy on the head and telling him it will be all for the best, as the alleged poowerhouse of the EUs recovery Germany is currently experiencing its own downturn with widespread rising unemployment.

    So the emperor will have no clothes when it come to his much hyped referendum OR NOT!

  • Kitty MLB

    An article from Brutus no less. As you say UKIP are not going away.
    The winds of change are in the air ( sorry Macmillan) but how appropriate was that
    Also regardless of other parties, and our party being in coalition, which was a mistake
    and regardless of leaders. The Conservative Party the legitimate party of Conservative values remains. Is Nigel Farage bigger then his party ? How would UKIP run a country in terms of policies. Ideology is nice
    but reality is somewhat different.
    Does UKIP have the equivalent of David Davies, John Redwood, Malcolm Rifkind,
    Douglas Carswell, Frank Field ( yes I know) and others. because you do need a experienced and respected.
    MP’s. Some of those may be in a Conservative majority party.
    As me bleating granny used to say Fine words butter no parsnips and I say
    people want meat and gravy at the general election.
    I hope UKIP replace Labour at some point but the country will not stop and wait..
    and a clean brush always sweeps clean.

    • Dogzzz

      If the conservative party had the likes of David Davies, John Redwood, Douglas Carswell, and even Frank Field, in senior cabinet positions, then they MIGHT be worth considering voting for. If David Davis were leader, I think UKIP would implode and the tories would win a landslide.as a third of UKIP “go home” to the tories.

  • The Elderking

    People have now seen that it is possible to achieve success by voting UKIP.

    That will change the mindset at the next election.

    Why would I, a lifelong Conservative, vote for a Party that is not that different from Labour? I may as well vote UKIP and damn the consequences if we fail.

    The sheer level of migration is swamping the UK. It is affecting us on an economic level but more so now it is destroying our identity and opening up the prospect of Britons being a minority in our own land within our grandchildrens lifetimes. Already our major cities are either minority British or fast heading that way.

    That is SO wrong. That is genocide. We will cease to exist as a people and we will inhabit a Balkanised land swept by all the troubles of the world being played out in our own backyards.

    There WILL be civil unrest. It’s unavoidable on our present course.

    Even Labour voters, never the sharpest tools in the box, have begun to wake up to this new threat.

  • Hotrobuk

    In the past, many people let their pencils hover over UKIP on the ballot paper only to move to the Political party they normally voted for because they thought their vote would not count for anything. Recent elections prove that a vote for UKIP does count and in a way nobody could ever have previously imagined. For many people who feel they have now crossed the Rubicon, there is no going back and I think this will be borne out in the General Election. UKIP has momentum and I note a spring in the feet of many people who feel let down by the current Liberal leaning Conservative Leadership. Seeing the arrogant response of many senior Conservative Politicians who think their supporters will return to the fold proves yet again that they have no understanding of what is going on in the Country. I happen to disagree that Milliband will become PM but I may be wrong. There is nearly one year until the election and that is a mighty long time in Politics. The Conservatives can win the next General election but sadly for DC, he is going to need UKIP and Unionist help.

  • George__Floorwell

    The article sums up my own feelings precisely and is refreshing to read someone so in touch with the public.

  • http://www.stuartcrow.com/ Stuart Crow

    I was a Conservative candidate in Portsmouth the council elections, and having been beaten by UKIP (though the Lib Dems held the seat with a sharply reduced majority), it is nonsense to claim that the 880 people who voted UKIP in my ward are all racists (or any other Cameronian term of abuse). Anybody fancying the bookies’ 20/1 on Farage standing in Portsmouth South would do well to note that our share of the vote was flat against the last elections here in 2012. This is a classic “vote UKIP, get Lib Dems” seat as we have a LD incumbent and the finishing order on Thursday was 1) Con 2) UKIP 3) LD.

    I don’t think Cameron does have a bigger problem than Clegg (he may have gone by the time I finish typing this comment) or Miliband, as long as he starts doing what he was elected to do in the first place. End the coalition and start behaving like a Conservative. I’m delighted to report that the local Labour and Lib Dem parties are going absolutely bananas about UKIP, denouncing them in all sorts of language. All the time they’re fighting UKIP, they aren’t fighting us, and we can carry on campaigning on positive issues of national recovery.

  • Bill_der_Berg

    There is more good news for Dave. The European Commission is demanding £500 million from the UK; £200 million for Ukraine, the rest for youth employment projects and regional policy.

    I suppose that we should not begrudge them the money, and it does show how the EU works. First they create massive unemployment in Greece, Spain and Portugal, then raise money from member states to create employment.

  • Peter Stroud

    As a member of the Tory Party, I have to admit that I am fed up with Cameron, Hague and Osborne ignoring the elephant in the room: our relationship with the EU and mass EU immigration. I cannot think of any previous Tory leadership, other than Ted Heath, who would appear to side with immigrants, against the indigenous population. Yet, the present hierarchy seems to be guilty of this charge. Mrs May seems to have managed to reduce immigration from outside the EU. Though the student problem is still unresolved.

    Only Cameron and Hague can negotiate a scheme, where this country is able to set quotas, on immigrants from the EU. This will need the agreement of other northern states, with similar problems. But I cannot believe it an impossibility to achieve.

  • Terry Field

    I recall at the point of negotiations between Tory and Libedem at the election, the tories were seen to use the negotiations to ‘ditch’ all the policies they had wanted to ‘get rid off’.
    So they became something else.
    A sort of ‘Conservative light’ operation, a big state, big intervention, marketing-fronted metropolitan setup that, like Labour, left the semiskilled and the bluecollar behind it.
    Now they find that their target prosperous middle class quasi-tory is a declining breed, the banks and the insurance companies and their professional hangers on ditching staff at the fastest rates their IT / intelligent systems experts can manage.
    SO, what are they left with?
    They are New Labour, but without the toxic Blair name.
    People are not fooled. They know what these people are and what they have done.
    The centre, as the phrase goes, now cannot hold.
    There is a new consensus forming, outside the manipulative Tories, outside the lying and manipulative Labour Party. A new political consensus is forming; it will take considerable time to express itself and form itself. It is not just UKIP, but a reflection of a new world, where Britain is a much poorer place, where people need to decide on the values that matter to them , and not to the patronising, multi-national, multi-cultural, multi-monied, multi-lying, mult-opportunityseking people like Blair. And maybe Cameron also.
    Whatever happens, if Britain leaves the EU it will become an even worse hell-hole if dishonest cheap populist politics rules, and if state socialism drives it further and further in the direction of Argentina under the Peronistas.
    The current economic uptick is a Maudling-like pre-election boom that will die as the massive further cuts and interest rate rises begin after the next election.
    The debt pile is ruinous, and as rates rise, it will rape the country of surplus and prosperity. The ruling class know this. The mass slobocracy has not got a clue.

  • Full Name

    Ok summary: Who thinks Cameron aka “The Heir To Blair”, will be any different from as Farage pointed out with Bliar’s track record in the EU:

    Farage vs Barroso: Was ‘EU President Blair’ the deal all along?

    Nigel Farage vs. Tony Blair FULL ORIGINAL

    Answer: No Difference: MORE LIES.

  • Lady Magdalene

    I don’t think you can describe Cameron’s serial insults to UKIP supporters and what were his own right-wing, EU-sceptic members as “sniffy.”

    He deliberately insulted them on a number of occasions, trying to demonstrate that he was basically Blair Mk II and the NuLabour agenda for the destruction of our country would continue unabated under his stewardship.

    They did it because they believed UKIP was a joke and right-wing voters had nowhere else to go but the Tory Party, however much it turned itself red and orange around the edges.

    How wrong they were.

    Since 2005 the insults have flown think and fast and as the CONs got ever more desperate, they starting trawling through peoples’ personal Twitter and Facebook accounts, desperately looking for something to smear people with …. and then entered into a nice cosy pact with their buddies in the MSM to ensure they were plaster all over the media, whilst scrutiny of the Tories’ badly behaved representatives was ignored.

    Do they seriously expect people who have been serially insulted just for wanting their country to regain its Sovereignty and Independence are going to vote for the man and the Party who had done most of the insulting?

    These people have absolutely NO emotional intelligence.

    As far as I’m concerned, the fact that Heseltine and Howard are Cameron’s mentors is enough to stop me ever voting Conservative ever again. I look forward to Cameron’s defenestration and the Conservative Party’s destruction in 2015.

    I think it will be entirely appropriate that the Party which destroyed our independence by taking us into the EEC/EU, is itself destroyed for its treachery.

  • Thursdaythe12th

    He can bend over.

  • Michael Ray

    A prediction.Cameron will achieve nothing in his attempted renegotiation with the EU.The Tories will not win the 2015 election.There will be no EU in/out Referendum. Just as well for Cameron.When he gets nothing from the EU how could he recommend an In Vote?I could never see him recommending an Out Vote ever.

  • Mike

    All three parties need to dump their present leaders and put someone who is actually in tune with the electorate unlike Cameron, Clegg and Milliband.

    Labour can’t be trusted with the economy but in reality who ever gets into power has to follow the path set after the crash for things to continue to improve. The economy vote has in essence been replaced by the anti immigration vote and there lies the problem for the LibLabCon artists.

    Only UKIP has got the balls to do what it takes to regain sovereignty of Britains borders and if that means leaving the EU, so be it.

    • Brimstone52

      All three old parties need to retain their present leaders for as long as possible. I think they’re doing a wonderful job. Just look at the effect of Cameron calling UKIP “fruitcakes” and the effect of Clegg’s debates with Farage. What more could we ask for?

      • Mike

        You’re right of course and for the short term the more these scumbags smear UKIP the better it will be for UKIP. I was just postulating on what they should do not what I want them to do as more of the same should see their support decimated.

  • Forrest_Higgs

    Labour, the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats exist to propagate the views of their political class, not the people who have voted for them in the past. It appears that they are headed in the same direction as Democrats and Republicans in the US, viz, irrelevance and obscurity.

    • Terry Field

      Yes. But what will replace them? Please do not say UKIP. It is a start but it is not nearly enough.

      • derek thecat

        Giant oaks from little acorns grow!

        • Terry Field

          Yes, but the soil is very polluted; the poor old tree may end up stunted, twisted and unproductive. Like Labour.

      • Forrest_Higgs

        Their replacements will be chosen by voters. I doubt seriously whether the corrupt and decadent political class represented by the traditional three parties in the UK will be acceptable, their betrayal of their voters’ interested being as large as it is.

      • Guest

        From little acorns mighty British oaks do grow.

      • Dogzzz

        Terry, do you know of any other party which exists solely to represent the views of British voters and which is capable of winning a national election?

        UKIP are not perfect, and I say that as a fan and supporter of UKIP. But I see nothing better to take on the combined tory/labour agenda.

        • Terry Field

          I know some UKIP folk, and they re neither the racist flatheads nor the little englanders the media mafia try to paint them.
          The ones I know have one thing in common; they are sick of the cant, the crappy lies, the cynical manipulation and the mega-stae corruption that has so reduced Britain.
          They also want to trade with the world and have no fear of the challenge, unlike the Europeans, who seem terrified to face the world without the ‘support of each other’ – and that is, as we can all clearly see, not without its drawbacks.
          BUT the party needs to represent an u=idea more enduring than simply leaving Europe and pulling up the immigration drawbridge. That will not be enough to keep the rot of the other parties from recovering. Good luck to you though.
          I used to be a tory voter, loathe the lefties like poison, but now, what’s the point. They are all , essentially, undemocratic and entirely the same,
          Good luck to you mate,

  • Latimer Alder

    My analysis is that the Conservatives (and Labour and LDs) have spent far too much political capital on treating the ordinary people of UK as ‘The Enemy’. And far too little time and effort in listening to – and acting on – what we want.

    It’s become a real ‘them’ and ‘us’. ‘They’ are the ones in Parliament, quangos and local government. ‘We’ are the poor saps who pay the bills and are expected to fall into line behind whatever is the ’cause du jour’ among the jabbering and gibbering classes. And who have been punished, marginalised, fined and ignored if we dared to disagree

    Until one of the established parties recognises this huge disconnect, UKIP will have a natural advantage in speaking as The Peoples Party, not expecting us all to be The Party’s People.

    And from what I have seen, this lesson hasn’t yet begun to sink in. I wonder if it ever will.

  • DougS

    Great stuff from Douglas, as usual. Logical, straightforward and to the point.

    The other parties are in denial so I don’t think that they’ll heed Douglas’ advice – more fool them and great for UKIP, the party I’ve voted for and will in the future.

  • Martin Jennerson

    The Tory Party is a mainstream party and is stuffed full of people who want to do well in the world of Westminster/mainstream party politics.

    Therefore its officialdom is full of fruitcake politically-correct obsessives who parrot BBC cliches without ever thinking. Basically it’s only good for very rich people living in the shires who worry about tax.

  • Imustbjoking

    Now an ex.member and voter for the Conservative party no amount of scare tactics will ever convince me to vote Conservative again, in fact in my opinion the Conservative party no longer exists, Cameron took care of that. I voted UKIP last week and I will in future, including the general election and if that lets Labour in, so be it but my conscious will be clear in the revolution that I hope will follow.

  • Karl Stuebe

    I think I am in love! http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/05/29/ukip-councillor-refuses-equality-training

    Oh. My. GOD!! An elected politician who isn’t a slave to an entirely made up politically correct mores?! Can it be?! This party is starting to grow on me. Deo Gratias!

  • duke raoul

    “immigration is not a matter of ‘diversity’ or food variety, but unsustainable numbers.”

    haha love it! That’s the number one reason given whenever people are questioned on the benefits of diversity, just ahead of cheap kitchen renovations. Maddening.

    • Dogzzz

      Those who refuse to understand how the state cannot cope with numbers who are arriving are like he sort of people who plan a wedding for 100 people and then attack the bride and groom as racists when they complain about 2000 people turning up and eating the all the food before the invited guests.

  • Jose Rodriguez

    A lamp I’ve found useful for eluding the dark and despotic march of most of mankind: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0094KY878

  • One Thirsty Bear

    Although most aren’t concerned with the freedom of others, it is because we cannot know how people will use liberty that it is so important.

  • Simon Barnett

    The British people have always welcomed anyone who wants to come here to work, to pay their taxes and to raise their families. We welcome and value their contribution to our society. Our long history of inward immigration teaches us than within three generations those migrants will be as British as anyone else.

    But we believe that the authority to accept such immigrants (even if they from origionate outsite the EU), the authority to reject (even European) benefits tourists and the authority to deport immigrants who enter our country with criminal intent should rest with the British people.

    Far from Millibands simplistic strawman accusation of racism, the British peoples concern on immigration has less to do with the colour of the immigrant and more to do with the fact that the authority to decide whom we welcome and whom we reject has been to devolved to Strassbourg. Like so much of EU law, one size fits nobody and leads to the deportation of honest, hard working families at one extreme and the provision of social housing for convicted terrorists at the other.

    • Dogzzz

      Correct correct correct. Well said.

    • pp22pp

      This tidal wave is something new. It is a disaster of biblical proportions. Also race is not a social construct. Altering the ethnicity of the British population will alter our character. We have been a power-house of innovation for generations. The Kingdom of Lesser Multistan won’t be.
      Tower Hamlets is the future.

  • global city

    One thing that the Scottish referendum process has highlighted is that government will brazenly lie, across the board.

    The useful thing is that we can clearly see this now, as two arms of the current UK set up use the same resources to make wildly different cases.

    Many of the dirty tricks the europhile government will pull if we ever have an EU referendum can be referred back to the same stunts they have tried to pull in Scotland.

  • Chris Quin

    I am a former Troy voter of some 40 years standing. I have just joined UKIP and donated money to them. Everyone should do the same.

    Cameron is hated by many long term Tory voters because he has betrayed them. In a hasty grab for power he entered into a Coalition with people they despise and he is relentlessly pro-European at a time when the EU has shown itself to be a malignant force, maintained for the benefit of a power-crazed elite in Brussels, Berlin and Paris. Cameron is a dead man walking because he cannot undo the harm he has already done. The EU is bureaucratic, corrupt, un-democratic and a menace to millions of unemployed in many parts of the Eurozone, where mass unemployment is tolerated as a unfortunate side effect of liberal pro-EU dogma.

    I, and many millions of others, will never vote for the Conservative party again until it drops it’s liberal pro-EU policies, in the meantime I have a party who I can continue to vote for until the UK has left the EU and we have thereby regained control of our economy, trade, laws and borders.

  • Fenman

    As a life long Tory and ex-member, I have switched my support to UKIP, as most of my friends have done. We are not the kind of people who will lightly switch back, as loyalty is one of our values. Most of us believe Cameron was not qualified for the job and with his half-baked marketing ideas and cliches has done irreparable harm. His own credibility is shot, as he has changed positions so much and his judgement has been shown as flawed, fighting the battles that he shd have left alone, such as gay marriage and not fighting the ones he shd have, such as the disenfranchisement of expat SCots. He has proved a useless negotiator in all important matters.
    He does not even uderstand that the key rule of marketing is never sacrifice your core target group in an effort to attract floating consumers, you end up with neither.

  • DaHitman

    Cameron isn’t going to do anything to stop UKIP for two reasons.

    1: He’s going to keep giving £70 BILLION a yea to the EU.
    2: He’s going to keep giving £13 BILLION to third world parasites.

  • Colonel Mustard

    Good cartoon of Spoonface. Got his mean little mouth perfectly.

    • GraveDave

      The nose looks like a devil’s tail between two bum cheeks.

  • Sintram

    Murray for president!

  • derekcolman

    What amused, or maybe amazed me, was the way that the various party spokes persons all declared that they have got the message that they need to listen more to what people want, while the rest of what they said, made it obvious that they had not. They went on to say they have to do more to get their message across. That’s not listening, it’s just telling us what they think is good for us. Hopefully such arrogance will be rewarded by another good kicking at the General Election.

  • Liz

    How do you propose to bring down migration into a successful economy in a globalised world?

    The only way to reduce or reverse migration is for England to experience a serious economic downturn. Problem is while English people might spend their working lives on Internet comment boards, foreigners workers in England don’t. So you’re scuppered.

  • Liz

    How do you propose to bring down migration into a successful economy in a globalised world?

    The only way to reduce or reverse migration is for England to experience a serious economic downturn. Problem is while English people might spend their working lives on Internet comment boards, foreigners workers in England don’t. So you’re scuppered.

    • Bill_der_Berg

      An economy that relies continual immigration at present levels for the foreseeable future is not sustainable.

      • Cyril Sneer

        Excellent point.

    • Bill_der_Berg

      An economy that relies continual immigration at present levels for the foreseeable future is not sustainable.

    • pp22pp

      I like in Korea and I have lived in Japan. They have highly globalized economies without immigration.

    • Cyril Sneer

      “Problem is while English people might spend their working lives on Internet comment boards, foreigners workers in England don’t.”

      Is that yet another put down against the English based on f ck all evidence. You’re deluded and as well as prejudiced.

  • El_Sid

    I hope the Tories aren’t going to get too distracted into thinking that the way to win the next election is solely in terms of grabbing headlines over Europe. Perhaps their single greatest challenge is represented by this image :


    It shows house prices relative to 2007/8, but you could treat it as a proxy for economic confidence. It shows the danger of those politicians and media in the London bubble assuming that everything is rosy, when for the vast majority of voters things are still worse than under Gordon Brown. In particular there’s a swathe of marginals in Brum and along the M62 which are really struggling.

    The Tories still don’t have a real solution to this divergence – something like regionalising NI contributions might help in the medium term. That lack of answers has its roots in something I’ve posted about before, the weakening of the Tory alliance between the metropolitan elite represented by the Notting Hill set, and the provincial bourgeoisie of Grantham grocers and the like. The Tories need to be more proactive in doing something for the world outside the M25, otherwise they will continue to lose Grantham grocers to UKIP.

  • Fenman

    Camaron is not a Tory, but a free market liberal, hence the problem for all true Tories.
    Having been aTory for 50yrs and a minor office holder at one time, I have now joined UKIP. It has lots of growing pains,but is no more a racist party than th eLibs are a sexual abuse party (jermey Thorpe, Cyril Smith, Lord Rennard etc) or Labour a fraudster party(given the number of their MPs and officials who have fiddled their Xs). What it must do to maintain the momentum is build aleadership team of serious people with good experience of life outside of the smug Westminster village.
    Even if they fail, I will not going back tot he Tories. They took a massive wrong turn when they rejected David Davis(see to-day’s DT).

  • tjamesjones

    Although commentators and commenters like to focus on one or the other, I think the real truth is that all 3 things are true about UKIP: (a) they do have a real point – the UK has changed in the last 10 years due to immigration, and the people bearing the brunt of this change don’t like it and aren’t wrong to be unhappy (b) UKIP aren’t going away, although they also aren’t going to form a majority – they’ve attracted their supporters by now (c) but also, it’s the party that attracts racists, the people who would have voted BNP back in the day.

    Tricky eh!

    • Bill_der_Berg

      The Conservatives used to do its best to attract voters away from the BNP by talking about the need to do something about immigration. This usually happened just before a general election.

    • FrankS2

      Do you think the votes of racists or former BNP voters should be refused?

  • JabbaTheCat

    In the meantime, the dear leader is showing the new MEP’s the real purpose of Brussels…

  • ottovbvs

    Cameron was right in 2006 and he’s right now. As for the immigration issue you could have found similar polls in the 60’s and 70’s when Enoch was making rivers of blood speeches. The fact is that immigration has been of considerable economic benefit but unfortunately neither of the main parties has the guts to say so. The same is true of EU membership. The fantasy that little England, maybe even shorn of Scotland (although this is unlikely) would be able to exercise the same economic leverage as the EU bloc is just that, a fantasy. Even the traditional providers of conservative material sustenance, big business and the city, are starting to get nervous and sound alarms about the sheer lunacy of the idea that we could quit the EU. Ukip is a probably a threat to the Conservative party at the next election but this article vastly exaggerates it. Most conservatives will probably stay close to mommy when the chips are down in a national election. But even if I’m wrong the effect will be to let in Labour who have no plans to quit the EU. Some conservatives have convinced themselves UKIP is an equal threat to both major parties. Not true. Labour has seen far less erosion of its vote to Farage and his whackos and given the distribution of votes across constituencies is much better placed to withstand small losses to UKIP which in any case they will probably more than make up with additions from disillusioned centre left Lib Dems. So yes some risk to Cameron but Farage’s supporters should stop counting their chickens.

    • Bill_der_Berg

      ” The fact is that immigration has been of considerable economic benefit”

      That is regarded by many as a self-evident truth, but when I looked for supporting evidence for the claim I found this –

      “For many years the government claimed that immigration added £6 billion a year to GDP. However, the House of Lords Economic Affairs Committee[1], reporting in April 2008, said that what mattered was GDP per head. They concluded that:

      “We have found no evidence for the argument, made by the government, business and many others, that net immigration generates significant economic benefits for the existing UK population”.

      In January 2012 the Migration Advisory Committee[2] went further. They said that even GDP per head exaggerated the benefit of immigration because:

      “It is the immigrants themselves rather than the extant residents who are the main gainers”.

      They suggested that the GDP of residents should be the main focus.

      They recognised that the resident population would gain via any “dynamic effects” of skilled immigration on productivity and innovation – these “exist and may be large, but they are elusive to measure”.

      In their annual Fiscal Sustainability Report, the Office for Budgetary Responsibility concluded in August 2013:

      “In our attempt to summarise the vast literature on the impact of immigration on the labour market and productivity we have not found definitive evidence on the impact of immigrants on productivity and GDP. Most of the literature seems to indicate that immigrants have a positive, although not significant, impact on productivity and GDP”.[3]

      As regards EU migration, a study by the NIESR in 2011 found that the medium term impact of A8 migration (Poland et al) was expected to be “negligible”[4]”

      • ottovbvs

        The old GDP per head dodge…Please…These studies don’t say the effect hasn’t been positive in absolute terms just not positive if you factor in the entire population many of whom have never seen a Pole. And your penultimate quote says the effect has been positive.

        • Bill_der_Berg

          GDP per capita is one of the measures of economic well-being use by the Office of National Statistics, so they deserve a good talking to for resorting to dodges. Here is the evidence of their nefarious activities. I quote –

          “Britain has recovered little of the ground lost during the deep recession of 2008-09 once a rising population is taken into account, the Office for National Statistics has said.

          Announcing seven alternative ways of measuring economic well-being, the ONS said on Monday that per capita gross domestic product remained well below its peak in 2013.

          “Unlike GDP, which has now recovered substantially from the falls in the recent recession, GDP per capita has recovered only a little of the fall seen during the recession,” the UK’s statistical agency said.

          • ottovbvs

            GDP per capita is only one data point as your above quotation points out. It’s application is more relevant in some situations than others (for example measuring total GDP growth). Applying it to the net effects of immigration is totally bogus whether its in the UK or the US another place where the subject of immigration produces more heat than light. Now I’m going to give you credit for knowing this already and draw the obvious conclusion. There’s no doubt immigration has produced an economic benefit as it invariably does in stable economies. It’s sometimes disruptive and the effects are spotty but they’re uncontestable except to those who want to play statistical games for political reasons.

          • Bill_der_Berg

            Figures for absolute growth in GDP will only tell you so much. It is right and proper that organisations such as Migration Watch should examine the statistics more closely than is expedient for partisan pro-immigrationists.

      • ottovbvs

        See treasury analysis and the the director of the NIESR contradicts your last comment.

      • ottovbvs
        • Bill_der_Berg

          Here is Migration Watch’s response to the main claim there.

          “The first poll “question” states that ‘immigration boosts growth’. This is incredibly simplistic. Immigration does not boost GDP per head to any significant extent because it is offset by the increase in population. As the House of Lords Select Committee on Economic Affairs said: “We have found no evidence for the argument, made by the government, business and many others, that net immigration – immigration minus emigration – generates significant economic benefits for the existing UK population”.

          The same “question” claims that ‘migration increases tax revenues and does not add much to age-related spending pressures as migrants tend to be of working age and use services like the NHS less.’ While in the immediate and short term this may be true. What it fails to mention is that the ageing process applies to immigrants as well, and therefore immigration can only ever be a means of buying time. Indeed, the OBR themselves stated ‘This effect would reverse over a longer time horizon, when those immigrants who remain in the UK reach old age’”

          • ottovbvs

            Repetition does not increase truth.

          • Bill_der_Berg

            I will bear that in mind each time I hear the oft repeated claim that ‘the fact is that immigration is of great economic benefit’.

          • ottovbvs

            I’m neither for nor against immigration, it’s simply that the weight of economic evidence in its favor is persuasive. Unlike people like you who are clearly obsessed by politics, I don’t believe economics is some sort of morality play.

          • Bill_der_Berg

            I’m not obsessed but I think it sensible to have an inkling of what’s going on politically. With democracy comes responsibility – or should come.

    • Cyril Sneer

      “The fact is that immigration has been of considerable economic benefit
      but unfortunately neither of the main parties has the guts to say so.”

      They do, this is their most touted reason for mass immigration. F ck social cohesion.

      • ottovbvs

        Au contraire…both major political parties run a mile from it although the business lobby doesn’t. You’re confusing the two although there’s some blurring particularly with the conservatives I’ll grant you. That it harms social cohesion is a reasonable argument against immigration but it doesn’t alter the economic numbers which are what they are.

  • David

    If I was a political strategist for any of the three main parties, my ‘Doomsday scenario’ would be when the electors finally cottoned on to what’s going on with the EU – that Britain has signed away its sovereignty across so many areas of life that UK politicians are now nothing more than spectators, watching the train roll past them.

    Therein lies the contradiction – politicians need to present themselves as men and women of action, it’s their entire raison d’être. But there are fewer and fewer areas where they can excerpt influence – basically Europhile politicians at national level are turkeys voting for Christmas. The real problems come when the voters realise this – why vote for them anymore?

    UKIP, your time is now…

  • DaveTheRave

    Of course the Tories don’t know what to do about Ukip, neither do the other ‘main’ parties. They are hamstrung by their masters in Brussels. We need a revolution at the polls next May, which to my mind would constitute Ukip winning 25 to 50 seats and supporting a Tory led government. The Ukip rump would ENSURE we got a prompt referendum and any negotiations with the EU.

  • Dutchnick

    Immigration is real problem but many faceted. Who objects to the Aussie Radiographer or many of the skilled and delightful people who come to our country and contribute. The agricultural sector would collapse if it were not for the Eastern Europeans who are astonishingly industrious. Our indigenous (often unskilled) complain about there being no jobs but will they do these jobs? No. Wounded by Socialism which tell them they have the right to be carried by the state and do not have the personal responsibility. There however needs to be a cap on immigrant numbers as the UK cannot keep taking so many. Therefore a selective policy is needed. Those who cannot or do not contribute must not enter. For example the Pakistani .community of whom around 50% of males and 75% of females are unemployed is surely a legitimate issue for discussion and there cannot be many who want Abu Hamza et al to enter. the UK. I am in favour of immigration but selectively.

    • My_old_mans_a_dustman

      Labour did this, all of this.

    • fenlandfox

      I think you’ll find they are employed,in the black economy as a rule.

      • Dutchnick

        This is why there should be an evaluation of the contribution that immigrants make. Investigation of Polish and other eastern Europeans showed a very high level of formal employment thought there is a question over some of the gagmaster groups but the overall picture of them as participating immigrants was good. Sorry as I my feel on a personal level for the hordes fleeing the Arab spring single, non-english speaking ill educated, mainly Muslim immigrants only represent a drain on our resources and a group that does not integrate and frankly is ill suited to UK residence.

  • My_old_mans_a_dustman

    Easy answer:

    Get us out of this forced marriage with ‘ever closer union’ in the EU;
    Remove the immigration restrictions on the AngloSaxon Diaspora;
    Stop giving Citizenship, Permanent Residence, the Vote, to foreigners.

  • Bill_der_Berg

    It has been argued that, as the EU moves towards ‘ever closer union’, there will come a time that the UK will find itself having to comply with laws that will have no say in making. Faced with this intolerable situation, the UK will have to choose between joining the union, single currency and all, or leaving the EU altogether.

  • Fenman

    Cameron does not have much idea what to do about many things and on most things he has no idea at all. But,, nor do Clegg or Milliband either. They all just mouth politically correct platitudes, while being in total denial of the public mood.He is the archytical Tory wet. They have have destroyed the Thatcher legacy and over the last 16yrs probably the country.

  • Sanctimony

    Cameron is going to have to engage with UKIP… or sure as hell someone else will !

    At present it’s going to be 30/30/30 Conservative, Labour & UKIp … Libdems 0 !

    Wake up Cameron….

  • Oliver Ales

    Despite claims by those opposing liberty, our morals and customs were not “designed”, but discovered through many years of effort and study.

  • miford

    Douglas Murray has to be the best journalist around in this country today.

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